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Bleeding Host in Poland confirmed to be the true body and blood of Christ

In Poland a consecrated host fell on the floor and picked up and placed in a container with water, according to the report by Bishop Zbigniew Kiernikowski of Legnica on Sunday. The falling of the host and it’s preservation occurred on the Christmas day of 2013, after the host was conserved in a container with water by the Parish Priest, it gradually began to turn to change color, possessing red-bloody stains.

“In February 2014, a tiny red fragment of the Host was separated and put on a corporal. The Commission ordered to take samples in order to conduct the thorough tests by the relevant research institutes," said Bishop Kiernikowski

The bleeding host had for sometimes now been attributed to have “the hallmarks of a Eucharistic miracle”

The final medical statement by the Department of Forensic Medicine found that “in the histopathological image, the fragments (of the Host) were found containing the fragmented parts of the cross striated muscle. It is most similar to the heart muscle. Tests also determined the tissue to be of human origin, and found that it bore signs of distress."

Bishop Kiernikowski said he believe that the Bleeding host has “a Eucharistic miracle", he told reporters that he took this case to the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. And the Vatican in April approved the findings and reports of the case and recommended the parish priest, Fr. Andrzej Ziombrze “to prepare a suitable place" for the Host so that the faithful could venerate it.

“I hope that this will serve to deepen the cult of the Eucharist and will have deep impact on the lives of people facing the Host," Bishop Kiernikowski said.



  1. Patrick Gannon Reply

    Good grief, has anyone contacted the police? Is there an active murder investigation? Did anyone check the sample for pathogens or viruses, or analyzed it for diseases? Has a DNA test been performed? Has everyone involved been investigated and interrogated? Are there any missing persons? Are there any labs nearby with human tissue? Have the other hosts been tested? Are parishioners eating hosts with human tissue baked into them? When it comes to that Church, I’d make like a shepherd and get the flock out of there!

    1. FON Reply

      How disgustingly disrespectful of you Patrick.

      1. Patrick Gannon Reply

        How disgustingly inappropriate and disrespectful not to test the sample and make sure people aren’t being fed diseased tissue that someone included in the cracker dough. Chances that this is a real miracle approach zero, given that we have no reason or evidence to believe the laws of nature have ever been broken or superseded by the supernatural. Chances that this is a hoax, nearly 100%, particularly since the motive appears to be financial – get those pilgrims to bring their offerings!

        1. Sylva Rodriguez Reply

          You obviously are not a believer in Christ. Miracles do happen. I agree you are so disrespectful.

          1. Patrick Gannon

            Thank you for sharing your personal opinion of me, but it doesn’t change the fact that the very real possibility exists that this is a scam or hoax, or even worse, a case of contamination that could have (might still) make people ill. As for miracles – show me an amputated limb that grows back, and then we can talk about miracles. Yahweh can do so many things, but He can’t grow back amputee limbs – why is that?

        2. Stephen Reply

          Patrick, there are hundreds of documented cases such as this one spanning through several centuries. In every case, they have the same blood type, are all found to be alive blood (not dead), are from heart tissue having undergone serious trauma (similar to a crucifixion) and are almost always independently verified. Some to look up would be the Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano as well as St. Januarius. These miracles are 100% confirmed by science and in the case of St. Januarius are still ongoing – they occur every year, continuing to defy science. God created the world, but the laws of nature have been broken many times (Miracle of Our Lady of Fatima, tilma of Our Lady of Guadalupe, several of Marian apparitions, Eucharistic Miracles, incorrupt Catholic saints dead bodies, etc.). There are thousands of miracles of evidence – these are what converted me from atheism – not to mention seeing living proof of them as well.

          1. Patrick Gannon

            “Patrick, there are hundreds of documented cases such as this one spanning through several centuries.” Hundreds? OK, list 10 of them. You’re making an outrageous claim, thus the burden of proof is on you. Your personal credibility is at stake here. The last one of these in 2015 turned out to be a fungus. The Church has apparently dropped this most current one like a hot potato, given that there has been no follow up to the story. The RCC wants this one to die a silent death as they most probably, correctly figure, there’s some criminal activity or at best a hoax at work here. If they had real evidence of a miracle, don’t you think we’d hear more about it? On the ‘miracles of the church’ website, they list 3 miracles, all of which happened centuries before modern science. Give me 7 more.
            “In every case, they have the same blood type, are all found to be alive blood (not dead), are from heart tissue having undergone serious trauma (similar to a crucifixion) and are almost always independently verified.” In every case – hunh – going back centuries, hunh? You mean back before science even had tests for such things? We didn’t even know about blood types until the early 1900s, but I’ll be satisfied if you can give me a handful of documented cases in the last 200 years when we had blood typing available. Speaking of technology, Jesus was supposed to be a god, but he didn’t even know that germs killed millions of people. He even told his followers it was unnecessary to wash one’s hands before eating. Most of these miracles were “tested” and “documented” at a time when the sun was still going around the earth and leeches were used to remove toxins from people. They didn’t even know what germs were and how a host might become contaminated.
            “Some to look up would be the Eucharistic Miracle of Lanciano as well as St. Januarius.” Lanciano occurred in the 8th century. It’s completely unprovable from a scientific perspective because there is no clear trail of evidence. There’s no way to prove what really happened 1300 years ago. The event was said to have occurred in 700 CE, but wasn’t even reported till 1000 years later. Lanciano’s miracle cannot be proven by science. St. Januarius died even earlier in 305 CE, and his miracle did not have anything to do with the host – it was said that some of his blood was saved – this claim also made over 1000 years after he died – and that this blood had some interesting interesting properties – none of which has ever been proven. Clearly there was no DNA testing or blood-typing in those days. These cases are most clearly NOT “documented” in any useful way to confirm their veracity.
            “These miracles are 100% confirmed by science and in the case of St. Januarius are still ongoing – they occur every year, continuing to defy science.” No they don’t. The alleged blood of St. Januarius is locked up in a vial and the RCC refuses to let it be opened. Scientists have proposed theories for what might be in the vial, but they are not permitted to test it using modern testing methods. You know, this information is pretty easy to get online before you go public with misinformation, thus bringing into question your credibility.
            “God created the world, but the laws of nature have been broken many times (Miracle of Our Lady of Fatima, tilma of Our Lady of Guadalupe, several of Marian apparitions, Eucharistic Miracles, incorrupt Catholic saints dead bodies, etc.).” There is actually no accepted scientific evidence for any of these “miracles,” otherwise they would no longer be debated. Whether your god created the world is also unknown, as there is no objective evidence for this god. I’m unaware of scientifically documented cases of the laws of nature being broken, but would be happy to review these if you can provide them.
            “There are thousands of miracles of evidence – these are what converted me from atheism – not to mention seeing living proof of them as well.” I’m unaware of a single miracle with scientific evidence to support it. That might convert me from agnosticism – so bring them on. Prove it – but understand that your credibility has been damaged by the misinformation and unsupported claims in your post, so you’re going to have to bring very convincing information to overcome the lack of trust any honest observer would have for your claims.

          2. Kelsey Hinds

            Stephen thank you so much for sharing your story! What a beautiful story in such troubled times. It’s so nice to hear a former atheists who has converted! I pray for atheists all the time, I pray they convert and find God just like you did. God still loves them very much, I just pray the come to realize that. It really moves me to hear stories like yours so I just wanted to say thanks!

          3. Margarida

            Patrick Gannon: Miracles are just that – MIRACLES – not a scientific experiment!!! You have allowed Satan to take control of your soul and is speaking through you. Thankfully, we believers REJECT SATAN!!! As Pope Francis recently stated “GOD IS STRONGER THAN SATAN”. In the end of times, GOD WILL PREVAIL!!! My fellow Christians, let’s pray for Patrick to truly see God’s Light.

          4. Patrick Gannon

            Have you read the entire bible? Are you really familiar with the acts of Yahweh? “In the end of times, God will prevail” you proclaim. So why worry about it if it’s preordained. Why does there have to be a big battle between Satan and God if the outcome is already known? What if Satan doesn’t show up? After all, Satan is not the one with bloodlust. Yahweh kills millions in the bible – count up for me how many people Satan kills.

        3. Daily Marcellina Reply

          Patrick Cannon, sounds you r an atheist. S sad

          1. Patrick Gannon

            Agnostic, actually. I was born with a brain, and eventually I got over my Catholic indoctrination and started using it.

        4. Jerry Ariesga Reply

          You believe it hoax because ypu simply closed your doors to possibilities. I pity you brother for not believing on this one. Already said that tne tissue is part of a human flesh particularly in the heart, this miracle first happend in lanciano italy when an ordained priest have a doubt in the eucharist to be the body of Christ, IF that was a diseased real flesh included in the cracker you said how possibly it bled? If you can see all, crackers you have said is in white color. Let us pun in an instance that it is really a diseased thingy that you have said why did it bleed? Think of it twice. Again i pity you for not believing on the eucharist. Christ him self instituted the Eucharist by the night before his passion.

          1. Patrick Gannon

            Why is this undocumented, unsupported, so-called miracle, so important to you? This thread has received amazing contribution compared with most other threads (except those having to do with sex). Why are people so wrapped around the axle over a miracle account that comes with no documentation or evidence? Why the desperation for a real sign? The transubstantiation apparently isn’t good enough. That’s pretty hard to believe in, isn’t it? So anything that smacks of a “real” miracle gets all this attention, though it’s a very poor example of a miracle, given the total lack of evidentiary support.
            The article says it was tested – so do all the other articles in similar publications that copy each other and say the same thing – but not a one of them says who did the testing or makes the reports available. Why are you so gullible? If they had these reports, they would have included source links – that’s what responsible journalists do. This is junk journalism and you people who believe this nonsense are PT Barnum’s suckers, and you’re upset with me for pointing out this to you. Well, deal with it. Stop responding to me and email the Vatican and ask if this is a Vatican supported or accepted miracle, and ask them for the evidence that the article alludes to but does not include.

        5. Andrew Eberlein Reply

          Want some miracles? How about incorrupt bodies? Note: incorrupt does not mean completely free from deterioration, but remarkably free from deterioration.

          First, fast list of many since you claimed you wanted 100 miracles. This isn’t 100, but hopefully it is enough:
          St Etheldreda was born and died in the 600s, body was claimed incorrupt in 1106. Her body is still here today, though I guess we haven’t checked on it in a while.
          Bl. Margaret of Castello died in 1320. In 1558 her remains were transferred because, though her coffin and clothes were rotten, her body was incorrupt. Again, we haven’t check on it in a while.
          St. Catherine of Bologna died in 1463 and you can see her incorrupt body today on display.
          Saint Rita died in 1457 and her incorrupt body is on display.
          St. John Vianney died in 1859 and his body (wearing a wax mask, again, not completely free of deterioration) is on display in Ars France.

          Now my favorite! St. Bernadette Soubirous died in 1879. She was exhumed in 1909 and while her crucifix and rosary had oxidized, her body was incorrupt. She was exhumed again in 1919 and 1925 to take relics and make a wax mask. In 1928 Doctor Comte published a report on yet another exhumation. It is rather long and I’m already fearing plagiarism with this post, so I’ll present some highlights here.
          “I would have liked to open the left side of the thorax to take the ribs as relics and then remove the heart which I am certain must have survived.”
          “What struck me during this examination, of course, was the state of perfect preservation of the skeleton, the fibrous tissues of the muscles (still supple and firm), of the ligaments, and of the skin, and above all the totally unexpected state of the liver after 46 years. One would have thought that this organ, which is basically soft and inclined to crumble, would have decomposed very rapidly or would have hardened to a chalky consistency. Yet, when it was cut it was soft and almost normal in consistency.”

          Now of course you might claim that this is all a big hoax, and I have no proof it is not. You have no proof that it is. The scientific evidence is here for you to accept. Science isn’t about creating models then forcing the universe to conform to those models, it is about creating models that conform to the universe. So if these bodies truly are corrupt, not only can we have great faith that God wanted to keep them corrupt for some reason, but science should accept these facts as well.

          I do appreciate your concern for the well being of others, but I would also appreciate if you could be more respectful to your fellow humans.

          1. Patrick Gannon

            Andrew you presented no scientific evidence. That would require a chain of evidence that ensured that the condition of the subject was known and not tampered with from the time of death to now. We also know that certain burial conditions can cause the skin to take on a waxy, soap-like complexion, and we know that this condition does not happen just to Catholics – they seem to dig up more of their dead than anyone else for some gruesome reason. We also know that this condition has occurred to individuals who are less than “holy" and indeed were not good people in life. You quoted a doctor who wanted to open up the body, but was not permitted to do so. The doctor confirmed that the body was deteriorating, such that they had to put a wax covering on it to prevent further deterioration. Until proven otherwise, the most obvious conclusion is that this is a natural process. It may occur far more often than we think – it’s just that most of us don’t go around irreverently digging up dead saints like the RCC does.
            You speak of respect for fellow humans, but what if they are being scammed? What if the Bishop at this town wanted to bring in some much needed revenue, so he invented this miracle? What if there is actually criminal activity involved here? If this is heart tissue, where did it come from? Who died recently, and under strain? Perhaps what was reported in terms of heart strain is common for heart attack victims. This article and a number of others that mostly copy it verbatim in other publications offer no evidence whatsoever for any testing that may have taken place. The researchers are not identified, no report is identified, no sources are provided to this material. It is asserted that the Vatican approved this as a miracle in some articles but not all, and there is no evidence presented that the Vatican has indeed accepted this as a miracle. The burden of proof is on those making outrageous claims, sn no such proof is provided here.
            What we know is that miracles are the least likely occurrence. If miracles were common, then they wouldn’t be miracles. Given that they are the least likely explanation, something can only be deemed a miracle if all other possible explanations are removed – and that clearly has not happened here.

      2. May Castro-Africa Reply

        That is so DISRESPECTFUL of you. Even the satanist believes that that is the Body and Blood of Christ. If you dont believe….WHY are you eve on this site?? Trolling???

        1. Patrick Gannon Reply

          I just checked the media again for an update on this story – and there is none. The Church allowed this story to die a silent death. They knew something was not right. Hosts do not develop blood in them unless someone has tampered with them – otherwise why don’t all hosts exhibit this condition?
          The lack of disrespect is to those who may have consumed contaminated substances. If this event had been real, there would have been continuing media coverage as the samples were tested to ensure that no criminal activity took place. There hasn’t been a single word of update on the story since it broke. It’s almost certainly a scam, or just some gossip that got out of hand.
          And, you don’t seem to know the definition of “troll.” I’m on topic.

          1. Kelsey Hinds

            Patrick I have wonderful news for you, God still loves you. I will start praying for you. Please know that I do not wish to fight because that would do us no good, but please know there is still time for you to repent and live in the peaceful bliss of our Lord. God Bless

          2. Patrick Gannon

            Prove this god of yours exists. Till then His love for me is useless and immaterial. As usual, you default to the Christian Mafia tactic which deploys extortion. I must believe, say and do what you and others tell me, or I will be choosing to go to eternal torment, like the storekeeper who refuses to pay the Mafia goon his take, and therefore “chooses” to have his knees removed. The Catholic god is a Mafia thug who uses extortion to get what He wants.
            Fortunately there is no reason to fear. The Church translated four different words, (Sheol, Gehenna, Hades and Tartarus) to the pagan word Hell (Hel), and none of those words means Hell as we think of it. Please look them up. They also mistranslated the word “aionion” to “eternal” but it means “of an age” and ages always end, so Hell is not what they said it was and it’s not eternal, and no good god would ever send anyone to eternal torment, and if such an evil being existed, it would be fair to fear this monster, but certainly there should be no respect for anyone worshipping Him.

          3. Kelsey Hinds

            Patrick this is why God gave you free will. You are free to choose what you say, do and believe. Yet whatever you choose he still loves you. His mercy endures forever!

          4. Patrick Gannon

            If I have free will, it’s because humans evolved it. Whether we really have free will is questionable and the subject of much debate in scientific and philosophical circles. If God exists, I would assume She wants me to use the tools I evolved to decipher reality as best I can using intellect, logic, reason, critical thinking, etc. The Parable of the Talents tells us what happens to those who don’t use such gifts.
            You suggest again that belief is a choice. One doesn’t choose to believe; you either do or you don’t,. based on what you’ve learned, or been told or been exposed to. I couldn’t “choose” to believe in Hinduism – I don’t know enough about it to even consider that choice. I’ve investigated Christianity extensively, and the more I learn, the more I realize it’s all myth. I couldn’t “choose” to believe now if I wanted to – it would just be paying lip service, and surely an all-powerful being that takes perverse pleasure in monitoring and recording everything we do with our clothes off, would also take a passing interest in the fact that I was pretending to believe something by paying lip service to it. If you want me to believe, you’re going to have to give me reason to do so that is based on objective evidence, and not on threat of an imaginary punishment – I investigated Hell and the one the RCC generally refers to – Gehenna – the Jerusalem town dump – it’s been closed for a very long time, and you have to want Jesus to be a monster in order to interpret his words about Gehenna as anything but allegorical.
            You say “his mercy endures forever, and yet in your prior post you warned me of an eternity of torment. Torture is never love. Sending innocent aborted, miscarried or stillborns to Hell is not love or mercy. Show me a single parent torturing their child and tell me that parent loves the child. The very concept that our species is born sick and commanded to be well, and then sentenced to billions and trillions of endless years in excruciating torment, while the longest we could have possibly sinned is the few decades we lived here, is as evil a concept as mankind has ever come up with. How can one be expected to have respect for an individual who would worship such a god? The only excuse is the fear and psychological abuse that Christians were indoctrinated with.

          5. Kelsey Hinds

            Patrick you must have me confused with someone else, I never said anything about hell. You seem like you do a lot of research, I have something for you to research. St. Padre Pio! A wonderful Saint who bore the scars of Christ. I also wish you would research St. Padre Pio 3 days of darkness. If you still do not believe then Patrick, you will never hear a word from me again. Just know you will always be in my prayers.

          6. Patrick Gannon

            Kelsey you said, “please know there is still time for you to repent and live in the peaceful bliss of our Lord.” Clearly the opposite of the peaceful bliss of our Lord is Hell. What else would it be? Clearly your insinuation that I need to repent indicates that you believe I’m going to Hell if I don’t. What else could you have been referring to?
            And what’s so great about bliss? It won’t be you. The prayer says, “thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.” That’s God’s will, not ours. We lose free will in heaven. We become zombies. How else could we have peaceful bliss? If we still had our wits about us and still had free will, we would be overwhelmed by the angst and horror at all the billions of people roasting in Hell, many of them friends and family who simply failed to believe, say or do the right thing. Nobody in heaven could be happy if they knew of people suffering in Hell, and if they could be happy at the misery of others, then they probably aren’t good enough to be in heaven, wouldn’t you think? Whoever it is in heaven, it won’t be “you” the “you” that you think of in your head, because that “you” is probably far too decent a human being to enjoy the idea that billions of people are roasting for all of eternity and you can’t do anything about it. You’d have to be a drugged out, zombified, shell of a human in order to enjoy that – and that’s what peaceful bliss is. I don’t care about that person. That won’t be me. If “I” make it to heaven, “I” won’t be “me.” I’ll be someone else who is essentially brain dead. I don’t see the attraction. I’d rather just be dead. The carrot of heaven does not appeal to me, and I see no biblical or reality based support for the stick of Hell, so I think I’ll just die and be done with it all when the time comes. No fuss, no muss.

          7. Kelsey Hinds

            I still never said anything about hell. Because there is still a chance for purgatory. But what really got my attention is you said IF I make it to heaven, which means there is somewhere inside of you that believes there is a heaven. I hope you get the opportunity to look up St. Padre Pio. Especially The 3 Days of Darkness. If that doesn’t make you want to come back to the Catholic Faith, then Godspeed. If it does I’m willing to help you with whatever you need. No questions asked

          8. Patrick Gannon

            I’m sorry Kelsey, but that sounds pretty disingenuous. Why would I need to repent if not to avoid some sort of punishment? You say right here that I have a chance for purgatory, and that clearly implies that you think I’ll be going to Hell if I don’t believe what you believe. Christians almost always suggest to non-believers that they are going to Hell. You are no different. It’s so very Christian of you folks to do that, whether you say it directly, which is more honest, or whether you not so subtly hide it in disingenuous language, as you have.

            Have you looked up the four words that the RCC translated to the pagan word Hell? (Sheol, Gehenna, Hades, Tartarus). I’m just not all that concerned. One is a place of death, not punishment, one is a shuttered town dump, and the other two are of Greek pagan origin.

            When I said “If" I make it to heaven, I was speaking in a literary hypothetical. Some of the gospels, such as Mark, are written in a very intricate, well organized, mirror/circular fashion that clearly illustrates the use of literary techniques commonly used at the time. Mark’s gospel is not the result of oral tradition – it is a very carefully crafted literary work of art that is designed to tell a particular story intended to help turn a mythical Jesus into a real Jesus in order to make it easier to spread the gospel to less sophisticated people. Matthew disagreed with some of Mark, so he copied and altered, and Luke disagreed with Matthew, so he copied and altered while John uses a completely different literary technique to rewrite the three prior gospels to his way of liking. It’s all based on mythology. My point though, is that if the gospels can be written in a literary style, and if their primary character can use various techniques such as parables and allegory to get across his message, then I think I can use a little literary license when writing as well. There is zero evidence for either the Catholic heaven or hell, so my writing style should not be interpreted to mean I think these things exist – because the probabilities in my mind are very close to zero. You nit-picked me without addressing my point – which is how to question how heaven can be peaceful bliss without one being turned into a zombie first.

            I looked up the Three Days of Darkness and it’s not endorsed by the Holy See, thus is of no value in this Catholic forum. There’s no need to debate something that the RCC itself does not endorse. Take it up with the Church. There is zero evidence for the mass Exodus from Egypt, so a prophecy that mirrors that mythical event is of no consequence. I must wonder though, do you agree that the current pope is an “antipope?" Clearly many of the authors who post articles here do, questioning and countering every halfway civilized thing he says.

            “Adherents of the Three Days of Darkness are usually traditionalist Catholics or sedevacantists. The latter group hopes that a “true pope” will be miraculously designated by an apparition of Saint Peter and Saint Paul; this tangential belief assumes that the most recent pontiffs of the Church are in fact “antipopes”. There is also controversy over whether the twentieth-century saint and stigmatist Saint Pio endorsed and taught on the future Three Days of Darkness as the authenticity of the alleged words of Saint Pio are disputed.[4][5]

          9. Kelsey Hinds

            I never once insinuated you were going to hell or purgatory. You were the one that brought up hell in the first place. Only God can judge where you are going. Just because I said you should repent doesn’t mean your going to hell. Back to St. Padre Pio how do you explain his body being incorrupt. He died in 1968 and in 2008 before being canonized they found his body incorrupt. Along with hundreds of other saints. There are many scientists and forensic teams who are floored by this. You know why??? Because it’s a miracle. And just for the record I was very sincere in helping you get back into Catholicism. When it all comes down to it I don’t even know you. I was just trying to help you. I haven’t even hardly read anyone else’s comments because I’ve been so wrapped up in yours. So it is what it is I guess. Good Luck

          10. Patrick Gannon

            Kelsey, what else could you have possibly meant? From my perspective, you seem to be trying to save me from Hell, and you think because you don’t specifically use those words that I don’t know what you’re talking about? I was born and raised Catholic. I know when Hell, or the threat thereof is being referenced – but let’s drop it. I have little to repent for, and if I do need to make amends, I will make them to whoever I hurt, and your god is supposed to be all-powerful and can’t be hurt – so no need, even if He did exist.
            As to the question of incorruptible bodies… it must first be noted that just because something has not yet been explained, in this or any other subject, does not mean “God did it." This is called the “God of the Gaps" argument, but it makes your god weak when you argue it. God was once responsible for lightning and earthquakes and comets and volcanoes, the firmament, and for the sun going around the earth; so just because we don’t have an answer to a question doesn’t mean “God did it." Secondly the Catholic Church has distanced itself from this process as a condition for sainthood. Non-Catholics and indeed some rather unsavory people have also been found to share in this condition. It’s not a Catholic phenomenon. Catholics just gruesomely dig up more of their dead saints than anyone else, I guess. Cadavers start decomposing once they are moved or discovered, and so in most cases are then treated with something to maintain the appearance as long as possible. This might be wax or other substances. I’m curious if you ever did a google search to see if you could find a rational explanation for this condition before just believing what you heard or read? Do one now. See what you can learn about ‘incorruptible bodies,’ and then see if that raises your level of skepticism a millimeter or so. HowStuffWorks has a good overview. Damp, alkaline environments can cause skin to undergo a chemical change that turns it into a hard, waxy, soap like substance. They look like something you’d find in a wax museum. Finally, it’s just assumed that this is a very rare phenomenon, but most of us don’t dig up large numbers of dead people. It could be that this is a far more ordinary condition than we think. As for St. Padre Pio, a Reuters article said he was in pretty sad shape and was going to take a fair amount of reconstruction work, when he was first exhumed. There’s nothing supernatural going on here. Come up with a real miracle, verified by science, and there won’t be anything else on the news, just like there’s nothing in the news about this Polish event. If it was real – we’d know it.
            In summary, there are not a lot of scientists and forensics teams stumped by this. I don’t think there are any experienced, competent scientists who would admit to that. I couldn’t really find any scientist you could pin that on – only journalists – Catholic journalists, who seem to have said such things. Please provide some sources. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Surely you’ve heard that before? Don’t bother to provide sources that come from the Church or its affiliates. Those are not unbiased sources.
            As an aside, perhaps you should focus on helping people who ask for your help. It’s rather condescending to assume someone needs help without asking first. It’s rude to walk up to someone on the street and just assume they need your help, without asking first – and that applies to this topic as well. Imagine you’re handling your kids just fine and some busybody steps in and starts talking about how they are going to help you, even if you don’t want it; insinuating that you do need help, that you’re doing it wrong, that you don’t know what you’re doing, that you’re inept? If I want help, I’ll ask. Most people will let you know they want help, if you ask them. Debate or discuss issues with me and I’ll respect you and gladly participate. Insinuate that you’re superior to me because you assume that I need your help, and, not that it should matter to you, but my respect will surely waver.

          11. Kelsey Hinds

            Lol I think you understand clearly my intentions were good. Your trying to make me look like a bully. I have proven once again that God is real because you could not back up as to why these saints bodies are incorrupt!! I think my work here is finished. Prayers are truly a powerful weapon!

          12. Patrick Gannon

            Kelsey, your intentions may have been good in your mind, but as someone who did not request your help, your intentions were misdirected and unappreciated. Debate me if you will, but don’t pretend to “help" me. I don’t need your help, unless that means providing me with objective evidence for your claims. I didn’t think of you as a bully; good heavens, no! (just an expression). That would have to mean that I was intimidated by you, which certainly is not the case. I was just pointing out that in so many discussions that I have with Christians, there comes a point, usually towards the end of the debate or discussion, but often right off the bat, like you, that suggests that I better get in line or face the music – and being Catholics (or recovering Catholics in my case), we all know that means HELL. And there is no Hell. They lied to you. They translated four words that don’t mean Hell as you think of it, into that pagan word, and then fed you visual images from Dante and Milton to scare the pure living bejeeszus out of you – it’s psychological child abuse, that is difficult to overcome. I know, so I point it out when I see it so Catholics are aware of how ingrained this fear is. I hope they will look up the words and learn how the RCC misled us, and how, if they were correct, our condition did not improve with Jesus – it got much worse, as there was no punishing Hell in the bible before he came. Hell was not a place of punishment prior to his mythological creation. (See: Sheol, Gehenna, Hades, Tartarus). I’m going to guess you haven’t read the complete bible, beginning to end, but I surely encourage you to do so, and take note of how women are treated by Yahweh, not to mention the priests of the time, as you read it. You have my permission to skip the pages full of boring “begats!"

            You did not prove “once again that God is real." You haven’t proven once that your god is real. If there was proof, we wouldn’t be having this discussion. I discussed the science behind the body conditions, and suggested how you might educate yourself, but you did not even attempt to refute me, did you? How can you say you proved anything? You don’t seem to understand how this works. If something is rare, that means it is unlikely, and the probabilities are against it, and that means the burden of proof is on the one making the claim – and miracles are highly unlikely. If you claim that there is a miracle here, then you need to trot out your sources and prove it. No such evidence exists, I suspect, or we wouldn’t be discussing it, as science would have confirmed it. With extraordinary claims, I don’t have to prove it didn’t happen – you have to prove it did. You have not even tried to do so. Explain why non-Catholics, including some rather unsavory characters have been found in this condition…
            Yes, perhaps your work here is finished. You have illustrated, as do so many believers, that you cannot and will not back up outrageous claims. If your claim cannot stand up to that scrutiny, then it cannot be accepted as factual. You can continue to lie to your brain which knows what it does and doesn’t know, and “believe" in whatever it is – but that’s what you’re doing – you’re lying to yourself, and deep down your brain knows it. When someone like me comes along and creates cognitive conflict by pointing out that your beliefs are unfounded, that internal cognitive conflict generally gives rise to hostility, which I think is why that is often the point at which I am informed of my eventual station in Hell, or having lost the battle due to a lack of evidence, the believer bails out with self-serving platitudes that attempt to cover up their failure to win, or even really participate in the debate, by presenting an argument for their side. Brush up on your debating skills and I’ll be happy to engage in this or any other topic you care to challenge me on. I respond to a lot of CatholicSay posts. There’s a lot of propaganda being floated (and a lot of barely hidden hostility to the current pope on the part of a number of the authors!).

          13. Kelsey Hinds

            I do not need to have the last word to prove that this is a Eucharistic Miracle. You and I both know they have already done DNA testing and that is why the police are not investigating any further into this. I’m sorry is DNA testing not good enough for you? Even they know that it is a miracle. Think about it, if they Truly believed that someone had been “murdered” like you think, why are they not investigating further. Because there is nothing more to investigate! There is evidence for you. Cold hard evidence whether you like it or not, you have absolutely no evidence backing up your theory because it’s all made up! one more thing and im sure you know this already but just in case you don’t once you are baptized a Catholic your always a Catholic! You can be excommunicated and start to believe that none of this real, but you know the truth Patrick, your always going to be Catholic! I know you will make your back eventually. You can make whatever you want to up and start believing what you are making up in your head, but Once your baptized Catholic your always a Catholic whether you like it or not. And once we are all done living in this world where we are not yet home, you know just as well as I do that we will be judged. All you have to do is read the bible, the Roman Catholic bible that let me remind you Jesus himself wrote. The one and only true bible. And that my friend is all I need I need to say. Anything you have to say back is just gibberish to me (not to sound rude) because you have zero evidence.

          14. Patrick Gannon

            Kelsey, all we have is this: The Department of Forensic Medicine stated that, “In the histopathological image, the fragments of tissue have been found containing the fragmented parts of the cross striated muscle…[The whole] is most similar to the heart muscle with alterations that often appear during the agony. The genetic researches indicate the human origin of the tissue."

            “Histopathological image" means they looked at it with a microscope and supposedly identified heart tissue. As I read this, it asserts that the whole sample was heart tissue – and thus wasn’t a Eucharist at all. Who did the exam? Where is the report? This happened three years ago. The Dept of Forensic Medicine has had nothing further to say on this event as best I can tell from extensive searching.
            They go on to say the genetic research indicates the human origin, but they provide no explanation for what sort of genetic research was conducted. The words, “DNA testing" are not in this or any other article I’ve read on this matter, and no evidence has been provided that I’m aware of to indicate that such testing was done.
            The picture that this article and many others reporting the same thing use, dates back to 2005, so we’ve got a case of junk journalism to begin with. The picture in the article here is not associated with the host in Poland, and they don’t tell you that, but a quick search on the image confirms that the picture has nothing to do with the article – that’s fraudulent, misleading journalism, particularly in a case like this.
            So what do we have? If the RCC really had forensic evidence to support their assertion that this was a real miracle, why doesn’t it trot out the evidence? Where are the digital slides of the samples, so other researchers can look at it? Where is the documented chain of evidence for the samples? Who conducted the research, and what are their credentials? Who peer-reviewed the report? If you turned this in as a science project in school you would fail.
            If we have heart tissue in place of a Eucharist, what’s the most likely thing? Are miracles likely? No, if they were common, they wouldn’t be miracles, so they are the least likely occurrence. What is the most likely? Well we have an outright scam, or perhaps a felony, perhaps even a health issue to deal with. How likely is it that there was a real miracle? Close to zero – because that’s what makes things miracles – that they are extremely unlikely.
            The article goes on to say that the Bishop believed it was a miracle (why not – the tourism would be great for his diocese), and he says he took it to the Vatican which approved it as a miracle in April. Where is that proclamation by the Vatican? Shouldn’t there be some sort of document to confirm that? Why have there been no updates to this story? Why has the research facility maintained silence, and nothing further about this event can be found? If the Vatican actually had this evidence why wouldn’t they trumpet it from the highest mountains? In all likelihood, it’s because they have no such evidence, and they don’t want to make fools of themselves. Just how gullible can believers be?
            What is your point in telling me that I’m stuck with being a Catholic? Is that supposed to hurt me? LOL. What boon does that grant me? If I masturbate and fail to go to confession, I’m going to Hell, Catholic or not, right? The Catholic Church keeps people like me on the rolls because if they didn’t they would have to show just how many members they are actually losing. In case you didn’t know, according to Pew Research, the “nones," or those who are unaffiliated with any religion, and which includes humanists, freethinkers, atheists, agnostics, etc., has become the single largest voting block in America, at 21%, while Catholicism and Evangelical religion have both fallen to 20% and the trend of people leaving the church seems to be accelerating. You’re with the losing team.
            You talk about making things up, but I’m the one asking for evidence. That’s not making things up. What have I made up? Prove I made something up, or stand accused of bearing false witness.
            You said, “All you have to do is read the bible, the Roman Catholic bible that let me remind you Jesus himself wrote." WRONG! You go and ask your priest if Jesus wrote the bible. That’s total nonsense. You don’t know anything about the bible if you say that. Jesus, if he actually lived, didn’t write a single word that we have today – not a word; and he certainly had nothing to do with writing the Old Testament, which was written before he supposedly lived. The NT is written by a number of authors and the only one we’re sure about is Paul who wrote first, some 20 years after Jesus supposedly died, and for Paul, Jesus wasn’t a real human being, he was a celestial god. It wasn’t until the Mark gospel 20 years after that, that Jesus became a human. Think about that – the first gospel (Matthew followed Mark chronologically) wasn’t written till 40 years after Jesus supposedly died and that gospel is a carefully crafted, literary masterpiece, not a collection of oral traditions. It was written as myth and then copied and embellished by the authors of Matthew and Luke who revised the portions they didn’t agree with. Not a word of the NT was written while Jesus was alive. How could you not know that? You go ask your priest if Jesus literally wrote any part of the bible and see what he says. I was assuming you knew a little about your religion – apparently I was wrong.
            You said all we have to do is read the bible – tell me, have you read it? Cover to cover? Obviously you have not, if you believe Jesus wrote it. I have done so several times and I’ve studied the NT quite a bit, including reading it in chronological order rather than the order in which the books are presented. The story changes quite a bit when you read it in the correct, or more likely, order. You aren’t qualified to debate the bible with me unless you’ve read it at least once, and if that’s gibberish, then I suggest you take your own words to heart: … “And that my friend is all I need I need to say."

        2. Gene Tobola Reply

          Patrick, the host WAS tested by the Department of Forensic Medicine as the article states. NO miracle is ever approved without strenuous scientific verification.

          1. Patrick Gannon

            Gene, where is this evidence? All the article says is that they discovered this human tissue in a host – it does not say how it got there. It does not say that any DNA testing was done, or that any criminal investigation was performed, or mention a continuous trail of evidence from the point it was mixed into batter, put into the oven and eventually dropped to the floor in 2013, then tested in 2014, and only at that time placed on a “corporal” – a piece of cloth, then reported two years later in 2016; following which, the story drops dead.
            To be confirmed as a miracle, every single step of the way would need to be documented, and the article most certainly does not provide that, or even any indication that it was treated as one would treat a crime scene in order to prevent contamination of the evidence. The article refers to the “Department of Forensic Medicine” but it does not say which one of these departments is referred to, as there are such departments at several universities in Poland. We don’t know if this was a university department or a police department – no source for the testing involved in this “miracle” is provided, nor any real description of the tests and procedures employed. Instead it is worded in a very misleading way, to make it sound like it’s all been tested an investigated, when in fact, nothing at all is provided to confirm that this was actually the case. I tried repeatedly to find some indication on the web of which Dept. of Forensic Medicine did this testing, but could not find anything. This entire article, from whoever originated it, is junk journalism, and not a word of it can be taken as credible, given the lengths it went to avoid providing any real evidence at all.
            Go check – there hasn’t been a single update to this case since it was first reported around April 20, without any documentation, evidence or explanation of the testing that allegedly took place. Do Bishops have the authority to declare a miracle? Why didn’t the Vatican confirm it? Why did the Church allow the story to die? Why are there no updates to this story if it was really a miracle? I suspect that a couple years from now, they will trot the story out again as one that was proven back in 2016, and if they do, that will be a lie.
            To say that “NO miracle is ever approved without scientific verification” is complete and utter nonsense, given that most miracles have been approved before there even was a practice of science, not to mention the tools of science that would be required to prove that the laws of nature were actually violated. I’m really amazed at the participation this article received – as though people are grasping at straws for something, anything, no matter how slim and unlikely, to give them reason to support their beliefs, so they hang to garbage like this article by the slimmest thread of faith – which if we are being honest, is simply pretending to know things you don’t know.

        3. margaret Reply

          Patrick, you sound angry. You should do your research yourself and then come back and enlighten us all.

          1. Patrick Gannon

            I’m a recovering Catholic. Of course I’m angry. I was psychologically abused by the indoctrination of the Church when I was a child and it took decades to get over it.
            I have done my research on this. I’ve searched everything I can think of to find sources for the organizations said to have tested this and exactly what those reports say. That information is not to be found – almost certainly because it doesn’t exist. What amazes me is that this particular post is the most popular of any post here that doesn’t have something to do with sex. There is a desperation for this to be true – for some sign from the Catholic god that all this stuff about Yahweh and Jesus is true – because deep down, we know it’s not. People are grasping for this thin straw of hope with a vengeance. The miracle of transubstantiation is not enough – Catholics want some real evidence. Unfortunately, this incident fails to provide any.

      3. Maria Reply

        For those who believe no explanation is needed while for those who don’t believe nothing is explainable.

      4. Grace Zadlo Reply

        God comes to those who have ears and eyes open

        1. Patrick Gannon Reply

          Those who have their ears and eyes open will be asking for evidence.

      5. Fred Reply

        Hey I am a protestant Christian and I’m going to agree with Patrick on this. I won’t say miracles don’t happen, even though I’ve never seen one that could be comparable to those in the Bible but I think Catholics should stop looking for bloody eucharists and weeping statues and think about what Christ himself said. “A wicked and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign”

    2. Maria Reply

      OMG! What d heck is wrong with u?! It clearly shows that you’re not Catholic! So, please shut your mouth!

      1. Roger Reply

        I am not Catholic, but I do believe Christ is with us, we just have to seek him , my question is why is meant in the article by the quote I hope that this will serve to deepen the cult of the Eucharist.

        1. Jerry Ariesga Reply

          It is simply a metaphor brother by the bishop, “thr cult” he referred to means the Follower of the Eucharist the Follower of Christ

      2. will Reply

        regardless of what we believe, its wrong to silence others who disagree. That’s just plain wrong. Let him speak.

        1. Cookie Reply

          Patrick, I never though that a person that said He is born Again does not have faith, please read John 6-51-55, may the Holy Spirit guide you through the truth, please do not insult The Body of Christ, faith is given to us as a gift. You can believe it or refuse His present. I invite you to go to any Catholic Church and be silent in His present. Special at the Holy Mass. Lord Jesus Son Of God have mercy on the believer a sinner.

    3. annie Reply

      if you don’t believe then don’t bbelieve! you’re so idiot! if you never understand the meaning of the HOLY EUCHARIST THEN YOU BETTER SHUT UP YOUR MOUTH!!!!

      1. Patrick Gannon Reply

        My goodness, Annie. That’s not very Christian behavior (or is it?). I guess I’m fortunate that the Church isn’t allowed to burn people at the stake any longer.

        1. Annette Reply

          Satan get behind me.

      2. Jude Russell Reply

        Annie, I am a fervent, practicing Catholic and I am over-joyed with this new Eucharistic Miracle in Poland. But I am frustrated that your critique of Patrick is nothing more than anger expressed through sentences which completely lack any grammatical format. Further, you completely ignore Christ’s command of Charity in your reply to Patrick. This is not the way in which there is going to be hope in changing the hearts of people for Christ; contrarily, this is why many people are turned away. Lack of proper and charitable communication truly hinders evangelization. Please considering being more Christ-like in your replies. God bless you.

        1. judith77 Reply

          I have the same sentiments, Jude Russell. Thank you for pointing it out. It should be clarified to Patrick Gannon that, of course, all the above mentioned cautions were obtained prior to declaring the Eucharist Miracle. That is the precise reason for the delay in declaring it.

      3. Aloysius Reply

        My Dear it is wrong and a sin to start insulting. What is their is just simple, pray that He(they) may believe and. Also encounter the Holy Eucharist. Always pray for others, mainly people that do no understand that God will open their hearts and eye to understand His glory and mystery

    4. McKenzie Reply

      Patrick, I am saddened by the responses you’ve been getting from Catholics here. I haven’t read through all the replies, but it seems that respectful arguments are few and far between. I can only assume it was a lack of willingness to engage in rational thought about theology that caused you to leave the Church to begin with. Reason and faith are both necessary for Christians and are two different but complementary means in which humans seek truth. Faith simply means taking the word of another for something that you can’t empirically verify yourself (e.g. trusting your friend when they tell you a story about what happened last week). You have to have a certain relationship with/confidence in that person in order to take what they say on faith. Capital F “Faith” is taking God at His word. I can’t give you the experience you would need to trust God and form a relationship with Him like that, but can only pray that He would give you evidence of His trustworthiness Himself. On the other hand, reason is absolutely essential, and matters of faith go beyond reason but never contradict it. Thus, I think you are certainly right to ask whether such investigations have taken place. Only after such alternate explanations have been (to a reasonable extent) exhausted can the Church declare that a miracle has indeed occurred.

      1. Patrick Gannon Reply

        Thank you McKenzie, and I’m pleased that there are some decent people responding. I learned some time ago, that when you question people’s beliefs you’d better have a thick hide. I can’t tell you how many Christians suggest I’m going to Hell! However I must point out that I disagree with your definition of faith. You suggest that trusting a friend is based on faith, but it’s not. It’s based on empirical, objective knowledge of the person, how they act, how they have acted in the past. Trusting a complete stranger might be faith, but not trusting a friend; and even the complete stranger can be given a quick once-over to attempt to learn enough real information to justify any trust that is given. This is observational and experiential evidence that has value in deciding whether to trust someone. We don’t have any of that for gods or afterlives.
        You speak of “experiences” one needs to trust God, and I’ve experienced a handful of such experiences, but there is nothing to indicate that these experiences weren’t simply electrochemical reactions taking place in my brain, particularly since they tend to occur in unusual circumstances or times of heightened emotions.
        I do appreciate that you agree common sense, i.e. investigation before announcement is essential in such matters.

        1. Adas Reply

          Either you believe in God or you don’t. How’s that?

          1. Patrick Gannon

            I don’t think it’s that simple – at least not for an agnostic. I lack evidence for the existence of gods or afterlives, but that doesn’t mean that no god or gods exist; only that there is no evidence for them. Faith is just pretending to know something you don’t know, and I don’t see how that can be cognitively healthy for us, so it makes sense to live our lives with “hope” for such things if they give us comfort, but not to have “faith” in them and act as though they really are real.

    5. John Smith Reply


      1. John Phillip Kudia Reply

        If mankind has a faculty for belief perhaps it was the creator who gave us that faculty? and if what is real expands and makes the human person more complete then faith is a real good thing.

        1. Patrick Gannon Reply

          We’ve been indoctrinated to believe that faith is a good thing – but is it really? Faith is pretending to know things we don’t know. If we need to believe something, it’s because we don’t know it – we have no evidence for it. If we had evidence we wouldn’t need to believe it, we wouldn’t need to have faith, we wouldn’t need to pretend that we know things we don’t know, we wouldn’t have to lie to ourselves. Our brains know what we have evidence for, what we know and what we don’t know. When we lie to ourselves and tell our brains we believe things for which the brain has no evidence, then, I think we are creating an internal cognitive conflict, and this cannot be good for our mental health. Indeed if one looks around to where beliefs and faith are the strongest, one tends to find the most discord, hate, discrimination, prejudice and violence.

    6. Tricia Reply

      Patrick- what about the evidence that the blood is not from postmortem? They can tell by the protein percentage. No DNA test necessary…God is not dead.

      1. Patrick Gannon Reply

        How can a being that exists outside of space and time have any material substance whatsoever?
        I keep checking to see if there are any updates to the story, but I don’t see anything yet. As best I can tell, no serious investigation took place. It seems that this was declared a miracle by locals in Poland, but I don’t see anything to confirm that the Vatican has called it a miracle, which if correct, would be a smart move on their part.
        What we know is that some unknown source has declared that tests were done to prove this is strained human heart tissue, but unless I missed it, there isn’t a shred of source material to tell us who did these tests or anything about them. I would not accept communion in that Church till this was fully investigated! I’d be more impressed with transubstantiation if the host “glowed” or shined with a stunning brilliant light, or something other-worldly. Human tissue in a host – well the starting point is that it’s got to be fraudulent or criminal, or both.
        I’m absolutely amazed at the number of responses to this post. Of all the things that have been discussed on this forum, few have exceeded this level of interest and participation, Are people so desperate for some kind of evidence, no matter how slim, unreasonable and unlikely, in order to prop up their faith?

    7. Bill Patulski Reply

      I’m quite impressed by your obviously abundant education on this subject. I’m so glad that agnosticism is being properly represented on this page. You have a great mind and even greater resolve, my friend. Thanks for being a rational thinker and a respectable person.

    8. Delores Reply

      I must admire each of u for ur intense research & in depth response.. I’m more the person of just basic prayers & trust to a being that I can’t see but have travel extensively into the world of just plain trust in His care for myself & family. I’ve been to the point of not knowing what will happen to me & my children….when one has been brought to the point that God is the only hope left and u seek Him w/ur whole heart….He is faithful & was faithful to me. I can’t list nor have the verbiage to debate His answering so many of my prayers…. there is really no explanation but I don’t need to read all kinds of books all I did was believe that God created the universe and He is real today… That’s all I needed was to step out in faith & accepting His love & putting my trust in His Saving grace.
      So simple for me. I do pray for individuals that r having a hard time in accepting Him as our supreme being. That’s ok w/me because I go back to King David, Moses & Paul all were siners but were used mighty by God. In Gods time He will reach each & everyone. It’s up to each of us if we accept His love…I am a convert to the catholic faith…I love my catholic faith and do believe in the body & blood of Christ in the eucharist …I’m ok in all test that need to be made, in all the debates and in all the questions to be asked…He will prove all that needs to be proven. PLEASE DONT respond to my comment for I’m just a person of deep faith in a living God…

    9. Stella Mitchell Reply

      I Believe the host showing blood stains something bad will happen to the world

    10. Samuel Herbert Reply

      Hhahahahaha PaTrick you made my day 😀

  2. Miss Crowther Reply

    Don’t be an idiot! No one’s been murdered. This is what Jesus meant when he said “I am the bread of life “