26 Dec 2014 Q&A Comments (3)

Did the Mormons' president downplay a central teaching of Mormonism?

Full Question I heard that the current Mormon "prophet" gave an interview in which he waffled on the key teaching of Mormonism—that men can become gods. Is…

Read more

29 Jul 2016 News Comments (1)

What Pope Francis told young immigrants in Texas

(CNA/EWTN News) - As thousands of youth gather in Krakow this week for World Youth Day with Pope Francis, hundreds of undocumented immigrants in Texas…

Read more

22 Apr 2016 USA No comments

Updates on Dorothy Day’s canonization process

The Cause of social justice pioneer Dorothy Day has taken a step forward after a decision by Cardinal Timothy Dolan, Archbishop of New York, to open a cano…

Read more

26 Jan 2016 News Vatican No comments

Pope Francis declares Father Engelmar Unzeitig a martyr

Fr. Engelmar Unzeitig, a young priest with Czech roots serving in Germany and Austria, was arrested by the Nazis on April 21, 1941. His crime was Preaching a…

Read more

17 Oct 2015 News Vatican No comments

What will the Synod’s final document look like?

As the second week of the synod draws to a close, it remains to be seen what the final product from the global meeting of bishops will be. The Synod on the F…

Read more

26 Apr 2016 USA No comments

New nuncio to US says he’s ready to listen and learn

Archbishop Christophe Pierre met Pope Francis at the Vatican last week Archbishop Christophe Pierre, the new nuncio to the United States, said he is ready to l…

Read more

12 Jan 2016 Europe News No comments

British Ambassador to the Holy See commemorates 250th anniversary James Stuart's funeral

On the 8th of January,at a ceremony marking the 250th anniversary of his state funeral (Old Pretender's), British Ambassador to the Holy See, Nigel Baker laid a…

Read more

25 Sep 2015 News USA No comments

Our brother, the Pope – Bishop Conley on the papal visit thus far

Bishop James Conley says that Pope Francis' mandate to go beyond the narrow confines of own worlds is a challenge, but not one without encouragement from their …

Read more

12 Jan 2016 Europe Middle East News No comments

Persecuted Christians of the Middle East receives gift from Prince Charles of Wales

Prince Charles of Wales has made a generous donation to the church to support persecuted Christians in the Middle East as the situation has reached a deep crisi…

Read more
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3

How could Lucifer, an archangel, have rebelled against God?

Full Question

Revelation 12:7-9 says Lucifer and his angels fought against God and were cast out of heaven. Since Lucifer was a highly intelligent creature–not to mention the fact that he had an intimate knowledge of God–I can’t comprehend how he (or any angel for that matter) could rebel against God. That seems to be utterly insane. What was the particular sin that Lucifer and the angels allied with him committed?


You’re right in characterizing Lucifer’s rebellion as an insane act. Don’t forget that, although Lucifer had a superabundance of spiritual gifts, he was also endowed, as we are, with the gift of free will. God left him free to choose good over evil, and, as we know, he chose evil.

Consider Adam and Eve. Before the Fall they possessed immortality, control over their passions and appetites, the complete integrity of their wills, as well as a human intelligence far superior to that which we have now. Yet, like Lucifer, they chose to commit a mortal sin. This means God allowed them to exercise their free will.

As for the particular sin the bad angels committed, many theologians believe that in their pre-fallen state the angels were given a foreknowledge of humans (who would be inferior to them), as well as a foreknowledge that God himself (the second Person of the Trinity) would be incarnated as a man and redeem the universe through his death on the cross.

This revelation angered Lucifer because it meant he and the other angels would have to worship God incarnate. Lucifer and the other angels who fell were so proud of being superior to men that their overweening arrogance wouldn’t allow them to worship Jesus Christ the God-Man. This refusal–this non serviam–stemmed from pride. That, anyway, is the theologian’s theory.



  1. Patrick Gannon Reply

    Wow. Talk about insane.

    “Don’t forget that, although Lucifer had a superabundance of spiritual gifts, he was also endowed, as we are, with the gift of free will. God left him free to choose good over evil, and, as we know, he chose evil.”

    Whether we have free will is still open to scientific debate, but the trend of evidence is against it. Our self-aware consciousness (the soul) appears to be a product of the brain and cannot survive without it. All we know for sure right now, is that we don’t know. It seems that what we think is free will is really our brains informing “us” (where “us” is basically a self-awareness program in the brain), of decisions, after the fact.

    Where is the biblical support for this description of Lucifer?

    Didn’t God know what was going to happen when He created Lucifer?

    “Consider Adam and Eve. Before the Fall they possessed immortality, control over their passions and appetites, the complete integrity of their wills, as well as a human intelligence far superior to that which we have now. Yet, like Lucifer, they chose to commit a mortal sin. This means God allowed them to exercise their free will.”

    No, you consider Adam and Eve. The RCC accepts evolution as I understand it, and sees the garden story as mostly allegorical. I am under the impression that the RCC no longer believes in a literal Adam and Eve. Is that the case or not?

    Where is the biblical support that says they had control over their passions and appetites, or human intelligence far superior to what we have now? I can’t read that into the scriptures without a good deal of imagination. There’s no support in scripture for that. If they were so smart, why didn’t they know what good and evil were until a talking snake led them to knowledge? Even the talking snake was more “crafty” than Eve. They didn’t even know they were naked – funny how that’s the first thing the bible points out once they have knowledge of good and evil. Being naked is bad. Actually, given that we evolved, this is probably true, because clothing provided protection, but Christianity, particularly Catholicism, is all about SEX.

    How could they have chosen “mortal sin”? There was no sin. There was no law. Paul says Adam brought sin into the world, but there was no Adam, and I was under the impression that the RCC accepted that – though they still argue for some sort of supernatural event some 200,000 years ago for which there is no biblical or scientific support. The RCC is in trouble with this assertion. Even Francis Collins, who helped decode the human genome – a devout Christian and founder of BioLogos, a religious website, admits that we cannot have come from two specific people. The genetics don’t work out. The RCC made the mistake of accepting evolution apparently without understanding that it was going to do away with original sin, and hence any need for salvation or belief in the right things. Science will likely continue to shovel dirt into the hole the RCC has dug for itself. They should have stuck with the fundies and just denied everything like a politician!

    God “allowed” them to exercise their free will. What kind of free will is it when someone else “allows” it? Doesn’t that violate the very meaning of free will?

    “As for the particular sin the bad angels committed,….” Wow, I really struggle with this. Adam brought sin to earth, but angels already had sin in heaven? Sin in heaven? My brain is saying – that does not compute. What is the list of sins in heaven? Peeking under the gown of another angel? The prayer I repeated thousands of times says, “thy will be done, on earth as it is in heaven.” Apparently God’s will is not done in heaven either – which is good, because without free will in heaven, we’re just zombies.

    “…This revelation angered Lucifer because it meant he and the other angels would have to worship God incarnate.” I thought Jesus and God were one and the same. What would be the difference? If there was enough difference to matter to Lucifer, perhaps it should matter to us too. This is a really lame explanation. Perhaps the incarnate version of Jesus is not one and the same thing after all?

    “That, anyway, is the theologian’s theory.”

    Thank goodness scientific theories are more logical than this nonsense.

    I have a theory that Lucifer was the good guy. The bible is full of murders committed by God. He kills entire populations, wipes out cities, stops the sun so slaughter can continue, kills 70,000 innocents because his boy Davie took a census. At best, Lucifer kills 8; Job’s family over a bet! The text is unclear as to who really kills them, but my money’s on Bible God. It’s in His nature.

    1. martha Minchala Reply

      After reading your response to the article and as I got to the end, I realized whose side are you on. No way would I read your book.

      1. Migs Reply

        Patrick Gannon is a Satanist and hates the Church.

        1. Patrick Gannon Reply

          Migs, I don’t even know what a Satanist is, but it’s very Christian of you to tell me so. Thanks! I thought I was an agnostic, but apparently I was wrong; I’m a Satanist.

          There’s one small problem with that. I don’t have any more evidence for Satan or Lucifer than I do for Bible God. As an agnostic, I must admit that I cannot prove that Satan does not exist; but there is no direct, objective, empirical evidence that he does; so for all intents and purposes, I assume Satan to be a figment of imagination. I think that might disqualify me as a Satanist, but if it makes you feel better to call me that, then go for it. (I think it makes you look pretty silly though).

          As for hating the Church – perhaps it deserves to be hated. Not the people of course, I don’t hate people just because they disagree with me, as many Christians do – but I don’t care for the institution of religion. It’s bad for us. “It poisons everything.” (Hitchens)

      2. Patrick Gannon Reply

        I don’t have a book. I’ve read yours though – several times. Have you ever read the bible cover to cover?

        For an interesting perspective, you can search the web and learn the chronological order of the books in the NT. They aren’t in chronological order – they are placed so as to tell a story, but they weren’t written in that order. Paul, for example, writing at least two decades after Jesus’ death was the first writer, and Mark the first gospel was written a couple decades after that – but in the NT they are not in the correct chronological order; Mark comes first, along with the other gospels so we get the story, then we get Paul spreading the word. Actually it happened in reverse, as Paul was responsible for a lot of the theology that ended up in the gospels – and he never knew Jesus. What’s interesting is that if you read them in chronological order, you get a different viewpoint and map of the NT. You can see the evolution of ideas such as Jesus’ divinity being developed, while also seeing dogma (such as making women second class citizens) coming in at the end. The Revelation was written somewhere in the middle. Marcus Borg has a version of the NT in chronological order (in accordance with what most scholars agree on), that I found quite interesting and eye-opening.

        If I ever write a book though, I’ll let you know here so you can order one!

        1. paul Reply

          I never understand why People like Gannon come on to these forums that they so clearly disagree with just to argue. I dont like Indian food but I dont go in to my local Indian read the menu and tell the staff how much I dislike their cuisine …..Id be wasting my time and theirs. Mr Gannon clearly has deep issues, he needs recognition from the faithful, he longs for attention from us other wise he wouldn’t " Waste his time" …………..

      3. big nasty Reply

        You don’t even have to acknowledge this man. We have nothing to prove he either can except the truth or like Satan expect God’s wrath yes Patrick wrath of God.

    2. Hunter Reply

      Why are you here? You are not going to change any of our minds… So, I’m not seeing what you’re trying to accomplish other than to show us of what a sad, mad, little man you are. So angry aren’t you? Bless you sir. May God bless you.

    3. Rene Sanchez Reply

      Patrick Gannon, what can you say of Paul’s comment and I quote:

      “I never understand why People like Gannon come on to these forums that they so clearly disagree with just to argue. I dont like Indian food but I dont go in to my local Indian read the menu and tell the staff how much I dislike their cuisine …..Id be wasting my time and theirs. Mr Gannon clearly has deep issues, he needs recognition from the faithful, he longs for attention from us other wise he wouldn’t ” Waste his time” …………..

      1. Patrick Gannon Reply

        Rene, it’s my time to waste. I endured a lot of misery growing up as a Catholic, and if I can spare anyone else of that, I will do so. There is no evidence for God or for Lucifer. That is our starting point. Ignorance. We just don’t know, and letting other people tell you that they do know and that you should believe what they say, when they have no evidence for it, is to give up your humanity to an organization that has prospered for a couple thousand years, while inflicting constant harm on those who fall under its umbrella of guilt, fear and shame.

        1. Bocephus Reply

          Patrick, I’ll keep you in my prayers. Whatever misery you might have endured growing up Catholic pales in comparison to the misery you’ll endure from dying in your current embittered, hateful, and ill-informed state. Your catechists might have sucked at communicating it (I know mine did), but God loves you more than you can imagine.

          1. Patrick Gannon

            Bocephus, you said: “Patrick, I’ll keep you in my prayers. Whatever misery you might have endured growing up Catholic pales in comparison to the misery you’ll endure from dying in your current embittered, hateful, and ill-informed state.”

            Thank you for yet another Christian suggestion that I’m going to Hell. I hope you don’t think you’re the first! (or last).

            Prove that to me. Prove that a) that there is a Hell and b) that I’m going there because I don’t believe what you believe. You’re selling Catholic fear and I’m not buying. Which of the four Hell’s do I need to fear? (Sheol, Gehenna, Hades or Tartarus). And in what areas am I “ill-informed”? Please enlighten me.

            How can you say that the being who is going to send me to the eternal torment you are warning me of, loves me? Could you ever in your wildest, most psychotic episodes of imagination consider yourself taking your child or loved one, regardless of what they might have done to offend you, and throwing them into a fire that would burn but not consume them? You’re going to tell me that a being that could do that is capable of love? Give me a break. That is the definition of psychotic evil.

            You’re hiding from your own fears, by trying to project them to me. Better to dig deep inside yourself and see if you really believe that God, if such exists, could possibly be as horrible as the RCC makes Him out to be. Do you know that in competing Gnostic books that didn’t make it into the NT, there are stories of Jesus coming to save us from Yahweh, because he’s the evil God (and is secondary to a Father of Light)? Those books make a case for reincarnation, not Hell. Had the political winds blown in a different direction, it’s possible that Christianity would have been very different today.

            I don’t know if there’s anything after this, but I think it makes sense to make the best we can out of this life and not put our hopes on a second chance that we probably won’t get. But you keep telling those unbelievers that they are going to Hell. Let me know if it changes one of them, or if it just drives them further away, not wanting to have any association with an organization that would create members who spout such mean-spirited nonsense.

        2. Luis plaza Reply

          And now We know what is going on with Mr Patrick.
          This is the perfect example of what happens to our young people in The church their bad experience growing up and not have at least one person to tell you that God Loves you and cared about you.
          Brothers and Sisters We Need to Wake up and really live the Gospel!!!

          1. Patrick Gannon

            Luis many people told me God loved me, but they also told me God was good – and then I read the bible and discovered that was not so – certainly not as we define the word “good,” and we know what good and evil are. Genesis 3:22 says so! Slavery, sexism, racism, genocide, homophobia – none of these are good things, yet Yahweh condones or commands all of them and more.

          2. Luis

            I understand what you are saying
            I have been there, there was a time in my life that I question everything and let me tell you the more questions the less answers I got
            Now I am not trying to convince you of anything you have free will and I respect it.
            I believe that God will call you if you say yes like He did to Me and believe me I was stubborn He is Almighty and He loves you.give Him and give yourself a chance
            I know is worth it !
            I love you Brother don’t get discouraged!

          3. Patrick Gannon

            Well, I suspect that if there is a god, He/She/It would be more impressed with me using my intellect and reasoning to seek answers, rather than to simply accept what others tell me I should believe. The foundations for the Abrahamic god have been severely undercut. Yahweh rests on a foundation that has been washed out – no 6 day creation, no global flood, no mass Exodus from Egypt, no conquest of Canaan, and the foundation for Catholicism – original sin – has been washed out by evolution and DNA. This is all pretty much beyond reasonable doubt. I’m not at a point where I can shut my brain down and return to my former state of ignorance when I was more willing to believe such things.

    4. Paul Reply

      It’s obvious you care little for the truth of the matter. There was one thing Adam and Eve were not to do. You claim there was no law, therefor no sin. Obviously one law is a law and they thoughtfully chose to break it. Immerse yourself in the teaching of the church and you may not convert, but your arguments will improve.

      1. Patrick Gannon Reply

        “It’s obvious you care little for the truth of the matter. There was one thing Adam and Eve were not to do. You claim there was no law, therefor no sin. Obviously one law is a law and they thoughtfully chose to break it. Immerse yourself in the teaching of the church and you may not convert, but your arguments will improve.”
        How could the mythical Adam and Eve know that what they were told not to do was wrong, given that they didn’t know the difference between good and evil until after they did it? The serpent told them it was OK; but God didn’t warn them about the serpent. The serpent was even correct in saying that they would not die, as God had insisted. The serpent also said that God didn’t want them to become like Him, and indeed that happened in Gen 3:22 when they came to know good and evil just like the gods.
        There was no law. The first law came when God said murder was wrong, after the Cain and Abel incident. The next laws were the Noahide laws after God killed everyone in the mythical flood – but for some reason, couldn’t get rid of original sin when there were only a handful of people who still had it. Surely He knew what would happen, or He’s not all-powerful and all-knowing.
        More importantly though, this whole fanciful, mythical story never happened. Man and women were not created out of dirt and ribs; the universe is not 6000 years old and wasn’t created in 6 days. It’s just a story about the dangers of knowledge and how knowledge can be used for good and evil. There is no such thing as original sin. We did not evolve from two humans some 6000 years, ago, but evolved over millions of years, and becoming human perhaps 100-200,000 years ago as a result of random selection.

  2. C Payne Reply

    Patrick Gannon, my goodness, you need to learn how to debate. Pretty much each sentence you have typed could be explored and debated at length, yet you choose to write a superficial post to explain what is wrong with God and the Church. Take one step at a time. The questions, and you had a lot of them, you brought up requires very lengthy answers and you decided to pack it all into one post. But I honestly think you ask these questions without genuine curiosity. You use the same tactic all amateur atheists (I assume you are one, or maybe agnostic, due to the points you bring up but I could be wrong too) use; you want to pack into one post a hundred questions to the point that it is pointless to answer you.

  3. terrence tran Reply

    What about the Angels who did not decide to follow Lucifer or God? I heard that these Angels stay on earth to the end of the world as the punishment of God.

  4. miguel Reply

    simple understanding; we are all created by God according to his image and likeness. we have intelligence and that is connected to our free will from the very beginning. the problem of adam and eve is their disobedience to the that simple rule. that disobedience created death to mankind. since lucifer was fallen because of pride and disobedience, he doesnt want all God’s mankind to go back where it came from, that is heaven. i believe that lucifer, the snake, tempted eve to commit sin which represents the apple, as we all know, sex. that sin gave birth to cain. aftrwards, eve wants adam to taste it, and they did it. that thing created the evolution of mankind.

    1. Patrick Gannon Reply

      Miguel, you refer to Adam and Eve, but the RCC has accepted evolution. There was no Adam and Eve. It’s an allegorical story that tries to explain nature to ignorant, primitive goat herders.

  5. Lorenzo Ruiz Reply

    Neckbeard detected. So brave.

  6. Edwin Subijano Reply

    The consubstantiation of God and man was the person of Jesus Christ. Lucifer hated this because since he was so endowed with perfection he reckoned that the consubstantiation of God should have been with him and not with a human person. Lucifer looked down on men and cannot accept the fact that he will have to worship a human person (who is Jesus – the second person of the trinity). And so Lucifer dared to challenge God for not following his wish on this matter. And Gabriel the archangel had to throw Lucifer and his followers out of heaven.

    That’s what I read from a book entitled “The City Of God”. The book was about the life of the Virgin Mary on earth as revealed to a nun. I bought it from a Catholic book shop in Sydney, Australia.

  7. paul Reply

    I never understand why People like Gannon come on to these forums that they so clearly disagree with just to argue. I dont like Indian food but I dont go in to my local Indian read the menu and tell the staff how much I dislike their cuisine …..Id be wasting my time and theirs. Mr Gannon clearly has deep issues, he needs recognition from the faithfull, he longs for attenton from us other wise he wouldnt ” Waste his time” …………..

    1. Patrick Gannon Reply

      It’s my time to waste, Paul. Do you think Christians don’t go to atheist/agnostic websites to tell everyone there that they are going to Hell?

      The best thing for all of us is to debate, discuss, even argue – in order to open our minds to other ideas. This is how we get smarter. This is how we learn new things, and get exposed to new ideas.

      C Payne, if I asked too many questions (and most of what I wrote was in direct response to something above or in the original post) then pick one item and debate it.

      I’m waiting for someone to jump all over Edwin Subijano. Isn’t consubstantiation considered heretical by the RCC?

      1. Peter Micheal Reply

        You are really very much insane Patrick & Pray God should have mercy on you for you do not know what you are saying. Don’t allow God’s wrath to fall upon you cause if it does, then I pity you. You are very ignorant & know nothing about God, if only you truely know God then you will understand better that you can not fight Him, or oppose Him. In a nut shell, I Pray That God Almighty should have mercy on you & save your soul.

        1. Patrick Gannon Reply

          And you just lost the debate, by making a personal attack rather than focusing on the subject at hand. Thank you for the psychological review. Are you a practicing psychologist or psychiatrist? What are your credentials, that you may speak so freely of my mental health? That’s so very Christian of you to tell me that I am insane, and in the next breath say you will pray for God to save my soul. If I’m insane, do I get a break from God for being incompetent? Does God send insane people to Hell, like the Catechism suggests He does with unbaptized infants?
          Prove to me that God exists and then I’ll worry about His wrath. Better yet, go back and reread my original comment and try to debate one or more of the points I raise, rather than childishly telling me I’m insane.

          1. Ayron

            You know, God calls us to him by faith not by scientific facts, yes the church accepts evolution but to a extent. I don’t know all the facts, they matter but they don’t really contradict Christ teachings. Contrary to popular belief catholics are not bible thumpers. Our faith is mainly the spoken word the same way Christ taught And we listen, you know I was a atheist myself (I don’t really know what you are Patrick ) and God revealed stuff to me in a way I would never have understood if I kept looking for human science. I watched a documentary on this alien encounter which I know is a hoax but the alien makes a good point lol. He couldn’t explain their technology because it’s like explaining trigonometry to a dog. It’s mind is that far above ours. Or something like that I don’t really remember. But such is God’s ways above ours. I also see that you don’t have a decent grasp of God’s power (truly most of us dont) you say Paul didn’t know jesus, your understanding he never met him but he did meet him. I’m sure you think I’m writing of pauls story when he heard Christ speaking to him. But the truth is he knew Christ better than most of of the people that followed him before he was killed. He had (and eternally does) a deep relationship with christ. We know and have a relationship with christ. It’s hard for me to explain you’d have to experience it yourself. I had doubts. But seeing the spirit move me, showing me how to love, christ saving me from myself and the things I would have otherwise done to people, I have felt and seen the power of prayer. Call me delusional but when something happeneds right in front of your eyes and there are no magicians around.. God’s real
            And he loves us. Dude It seems to me your missing the point by a long shot . Focus on christ jesus message of love for a change and carry out his commandments and you’ll see. And it’s not about money, every parish I’ve ever been to is short of it and there’s more people taking advantage of its generosity than giving. Bro, christ loves you try it out love people the way Christ tells us to and morality alone isn’t enough christ is the answer. I hope God blesses you.

      2. Gab Reply

        Don’t bash him. Everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. I understand him, I also questioned myself if this is all true. I don’t even believe if heaven and hell exists. What happens to me when I die, is something that no one will know. I understand Patrick and his views. But I don’t agree with him. Not here to correct him. Its his point of view not mine. I chose to believe in God because I want to. I want to see him if he’s real or not. In my life, I’ve felt miracles. And I’m a pure sinner and blasphemer. I even threw a bible once out of anger. And even wrote God ain’t real on the wall. That’s how deep I am. But I was changed. Patrick thanks for your opinion. And I hope if not soon. You’ll find the right answer that will suit your soul.

  8. Shalomdel Reply

    We all have a soul.
    May any one that think they are so
    “smart” and “almighty” to prove that we don’t.
    There is proof out there besides Sacred scriptures in this world. That all of us have a soul. Supernatural events, with scientific explanation behind it. Is out there. Especially when It comes to Christ. And Christ resurrection.
    It takes research and not to rely on your own limit of understanding and God given intelligence.
    There’s always some one that knows less than you. But there’s always some one that knows more than you do.

  9. Shalomdel Reply

    Prayers for everyone.

  10. AKS Reply

    I think am really enjoying Patrick submissions. No knowledge is a waste after all.

  11. Ni Reply

    All I know that I have my free will and the sanctity of my privacy of thoughts. It’s the evil within us could be our best enemy, as I’ve noticed everyone of us has this self righteous tendency on to judged others or how we base our standards in hating others if not living with our standard, everyday we have a chance to practice this free will to the road to heaven or hell , to do good for others or to the cause of their deaths as the integral part of the circle in our lives. For example I had an arguments even to the point of losing my temper to one person who in my standard could be below of our expectations, but then in the middle of arguments, I sat back and looked at myself, I realized I need more understanding and self realization of so many things, there I was hating and feeling superior to that person that base on my self analyzation I was right, while she cursing me my education made me realized I was a fool to even argue our of feeling superior I felt guilty of acting superior in the middle of that chaos, then I realized Jesus Christ the reason He died for me and for others for me to realized that anger will lead to nothin but being arrogant to myself of not practicing His very teaching, to love others without reservations. To accept defeat for the sake of deep understanding. And to be humble in knowing myself.

  12. Terrence Tran Reply

    The humble is necessity for all catholic people. Jesus is humble by Himself when faced with Pilate.

  13. md Imtiaz alam Reply

    Dear, friend, I read all the comment, specially Mr ganons, see he believes in science, good and he tries to belive and understand everything with scientific knowledge, Good ! , the question is 1) does god exists 2) why Adam commited sin knowing the consequence, etc etc, 3) regarding Lucifer many have already given their answers as to he did not want to worship or follow a human being form of Adam, due to his high status and knowledge,
    I myself asked many times does god exist, how do I get my mind to accept that god really exists, until I got the answer, according to science there is no place for miracle if a human being jumps or fall from 1000 feet he has to die, if a human body does not get food for 7 days or more he has to die, and many such fact, but there has been many incident when such miracle happened, a man survives a 100 metre fall, a man survives buried in earthquake debris for more then 14 days and many many more other miracle thing which goes totally against science,
    Why ?????? Because there is something superpower – the God which turns unexpected into expected and vice versa,
    2) we know many thing that’s going to harm us , still we do it out of human curiosity , like we know cigarette causes cancer still we smoke,
    I am still a learner and have very little knowledge compared to all you above writer . thank you

  14. Wachiuri Reply

    Lucifer is the cause of all Evil. So where did evil come from before Lucifer? I don’t understand

  15. Paul Reply

    Dear Patrick, God will always be God and he does what ever he you bring up more disputing views about he’s existence,he is aware that’s if you are human or not but for when you will encounter him I do not know.I just want you to know the world it’s self has already enough evidence to if or not God exist,but believe is key and believe is free will therefore choice is is only a thing of grace to have the strong believe in God and on your human side the effort towards your believe is your choice.
    Fire is seen,but heat is spirit.

  16. Voodie Myers Reply

    Am I correct, remembering being told that after Lucifer’s fall, with his followers, God decided to take away the remaining angels free will, so this rebellion by the angels could never happen again? I absolutely don’t remember where I got the idea! It could’ve been a dream, for all I know!

  17. John Vincent Flores Capanang Reply

    Good points raised by Mr. Patrick Gannon..i was confused just a bit about the explanation of the article

    So Lucifer is not the source of all evil then? Evil was already existent even before angels? or if you believe that evil is the privation of Good, then the world was not created perfectly good? Is the Fall about how evil entered earth? is it about a different matter altogether?do enlighten me here people

    1. Patrick Gannon Reply

      Well John, the first thing to understand is that the idea of original sin or the fall from grace has pretty well been destroyed. We know that the Genesis myth is completely debunked – no six day creation, no first humans made of dirt and ribs, no talking snakes, no trees of temptation, no global flood, no mass Exodus from Egypt, no conquest of Canaan – and no original sin. We know from cosmology, archaeology and other sciences that mankind evolved a couple hundred thousand years ago from early primates. The DNA evidence tells us that there was never a 2-person bottleneck in human evolution, but rather we descended from a pool of about 100,000 primates and not from just two individuals. The diversity in our genome indicates this. An example you can look up is the Cheetah which almost died out at the last ice age. The numbers must have dwindled to a handful because every Cheetah today is essentially a twin to all the others, and as we know when you breed with siblings you have a lot of problems and a high mortality rate – which plagues the animal today and may spell it’s eventual demise. Genetic diversity is critical, and if we all came from the same two humans 6000 years ago, the DNA evidence would be clear – but we wouldn’t be here because the genetic defects would have almost certainly killed us off. Even the handful of people who survived the mythical flood would not have provided anywhere near enough genetic diversity to explain our DNA today.
      The last few popes have grudgingly accepted evolution and Catholics are now “allowed” to accept it, though they are also “allowed” to believe the Genesis creation myth – which tells you how much the Church cares about truth. But then you are “allowed” to believe in Limbo, even though that was manufactured out of thin air by Augustine, so what is truth when it comes to the Church?

      This acceptance of evolution began before we had decoded the human genome and learned that we don’t come from an Adam and Eve couple, but from a pool of people. Fundagelicals reject evolution specifically for this reason – they know it kills original sin, so they just put their hands over their ears, close their eyes and go WAWAWAWAWAWA to shut out any knowledge so as to maintain willful ignorance. Since we know we evolved long ago, who got Yahweh’s panties in a wad? When did it happen – 50,000 years ago, 100,000 years ago, 200,000 years ago? The only support we have is Genesis which is debunked. There’s nothing else in the bible except Paul’s contention that sin entered the world through one man (Adam), but Paul didn’t know about evolution and Jesus didn’t tell him in any of his revelations because Jesus (if he was a real person) didn’t know either. Jesus didn’t even know about germs, else he could have taught basic sanitation and saved countless millions from horrible deaths from disease for almost 2000 years. He even told his followers they did not have to wash their hands before eating. We know that there isn’t a single person in the bible who knew anything about future technology than what was available at that time, and that includes Jesus. The story says that with Adam’s sin, death entered the world, but the fossil record is clear that death began many millions of years before humans arrived on the scene, and there is nothing in the evolutionary record to suggest there was a time when humans did not die. It’s a campfire story told by primitive goat herders that Paul took literally as did everyone else at the time. But they were wrong – dead wrong, and with Genesis discredited, there’s no longer anything to base the idea of original sin on. Indeed, with the entire list of things I mentioned, particularly that there was no mass Exodus or conquest of Canaan, the foundation for Yahweh Himself has been washed out. There may be a god or gods, but it ain’t Yahweh. In time the Church accepted that Galileo for example was correct, and in time they will have to admit the same about other aspects of the universe, and at that time the best they will be able to do is somehow make original sin allegorical, just as Jesus spoke of an allegorical Hell (Gehenna – the Jerusalem town dump, which has been closed for quite some time now).
      This is all great news, John. We don’t have to be afraid anymore. We don’t have to worry about believing, saying and doing the right things to avoid an eternal torment that a) isn’t eternal – the original Greek word aionion means “of an age” and ages always end, and b) doesn’t exist as the Church translated four words (Sheol, Gehenna, Hades and Tartarus) to the pagan word Hell (Note that Hades is also pagan, as Hades was the brother of Zeus and Poseidon – yup, paganism right there in the NT, when you use the original word instead of the pagan “Hell” that came from northern Europe). It’s all made up. There was no original sin. Take a deep breath, let it out with full relaxation and live the rest of your life with a greater joy as I do…

Leave a Reply

  1. most read post
  2. Most Commented
  3. Choose Categories