Why terrorists hate the Catholic Church so much - Catholic News Service

Why terrorists hate the Catholic Church so much

“We will conquer your Rome, break your crosses, and enslave your women,” ISIS proclaimed in its declaration of war against the Catholic Church in 2014. Why does ISIS hate the Catholic Church so much? Why does it target priests and threaten Rome by name?

Christ Himself warned His Church and His followers would be persecuted. The Book of Revelations holds dire predictions for believers. History is filled with examples of Christian persecution, from the apostles themselves to the present day.

This is a sign that the Church is the right path, so while persecution is painful, it is also an affirmation that we are on the path marked by Christ.

The Church faces persecution from many sources; the devil has many faces. Governments, militant atheists, satanists, and militant Muslims target the Catholic Church. It is as if they all know the Catholic Church is the great bride of Christ. If you wish to strike against God, the best target is His Church, and that Church is the One, True, Holy, and Apostolic Catholic Church.

The Islamic State has a particular bloodlust for Catholics. Part of the reason, as outlined above, is that Satan surely has a special hatred of the Catholic Church, and ISIS is but one of his faces. However, history cannot be ignored.

More than nine centuries ago, the First Crusade was launched. The crusade was called by Pope Urban II, who was alarmed that Muslims were persecuting Christians on their pilgrimages to the Holy Land. The crusade provided an outlet for the surplus of unlanded nobility wandering the fields of medieval Europe. The crusade to protect pilgrims quickly became political and provided an opportunity to many nobles to make names for themselves and seize land.

The First Crusade was a Christian victory as the armies seized Jerusalem. However, it also reignited a conflict against the Islamic world that had continued off and on since the Islamic invasion of Europe two centuries before.

For the next hundred years, Islamic armies chipped away at the crusaders and the generations of soldiers who followed. Islam eventually regained the territory it lost to the Christian armies. Yet Islam stalled in southeastern Europe and was halted by the distinctly Catholic armies of the defending emperors and kings of Europe.

A lasting peace was established with only occasional, short-lived conflicts -relative to the crusades. This peace lasted until the establishment of the state of Israel after World War II. Since then, the Islamic world has been at war with the West.

The Islamic State sees itself as the continuation of the ancient Islamic Caliphate, which held a mandate to make the world Islamic. The greatest traditional gatekeeper of Christianity is the Catholic Church. So, the Islamic State has cast itself in the traditional Islamic role of jihadist, and the Catholic Church in the classic role as adversary.

The very manifesto of ISIS states:
“The Muslims will be at war with the Roman Christians. Rome in the Arabic tongue of the Prophet (sallallāhu ‘alayhi wa sallam) refers to the Christians of Europe and their colonies in Shām prior to the conquering of Shām at the hands of the Sahābah. There will be a pause in this war due to a truce or treaty. . Then the Romans will commit treachery by raising the cross and killing a Muslim. This will lead to the continuation of the war between the Muslims and the Romans. They will demand access to those who enslaved some of them or the former captives themselves who accept- ed Islam so as to fight them. This enslavement will have taken place either before the signing of the truce or after the treachery, and Allah knows best. These events all lead up to the final, greatest, and bloodiest battle – al-Malhamah al- Kubrā – between the Muslims and the Romans prior to the appearance of the Dajjāl and the descent of al-Masīh. This battle ends the era of the Roman Christians, as the Muslims will then advance upon Constantinople and thereafter Rome, to conquer the two cities and raise the flag of the Khilāfah over them.”

The fact the Church today preaches peace, tolerance, and commands no armies makes little difference to the Islamic State. They see the Church as a symbol for everything they hate. A paragon of resistance to their reign terror.

The Devil has many faces, and this is the face of ISIS. They target the Catholic Church because the Church is the single pure, Holy and Apostolic institution established by Christ at the end of His earthly ministry.

But the terrorists of the Islamic State do not know what the Devil knows. “The gates of Hell will not prevail against it,” (Matthew 16:18). The Church is assured of victory because she is protected by the promises of Christ.

Many, many people have attempted to destroy the Church. Armies have marched against her, emperors and kings have declared war on her. Her own priests and bishops have sometimes done much to damage her reputation. Yet even after all this, the Church still stands, proud and tall, a mighty rock against the evil of Satan. The Church has no shortage of volunteers to perform its work, giving charitably, healing courageously, and teaching selflessly.

The terrorists of the Islamic State may harm the clergy and members of the Church, but they cannot destroy the Church. We remain steadfast in our faith, no matter what face the Devil wears.

By Marshall Connolly



  1. Patrick Gannon Reply

    “”The gates of Hell will not prevail against it,” (Matthew 16:18). The Church is assured of victory because she is protected by the promises of Christ.”
    So what’s the problem? If victory is preordained, then why not just chill out and let the Muslim advance continue? If Christians really believe in this pre-ordained victory, they should have no concern regarding Islam, but they are concerned, aren’t they? As the article states, the Vatican no longer has its own army, and the countries that have armies sufficient to combat Islamic extremism are becoming ever less religious. Maybe the solution is to back out of the region and let Muslims kill each other till they tire of it as Christianity did after centuries of doing the same. I sure as heck don’t want to send our kids off to kill Muslims in the name of any Abrahamic god. The Vatican is rich – let it raise its own army since it believes victory is pre-ordained.
    The only long term solution is to do away with the Abrahamic religions. They are inherently violent, as their entire history illustrates. All are based on events that did not happen – the foundation for the Abrahamic religions has washed out. There was no six day creation, no global flood, no mass Exodus from Egypt, and no conquest of Canaan, and it is upon these events that Yahweh was contrived. It’s insane for humans to continue killing each other over mythical figures. The solution seems to come down to: Religion OR Peace.

    1. Tomes Lore Reply

      well, you should read bible stories and please omit the ‘God words and deed’ in the stories, so you will clearly see that without religion, there were also no peace.
      Please read the story of Three Kingdoms, the classic of Chinesse, the warring states were not about religion. In India, you will find classic story of Mahabharat, the war between families from single line. Also not about religion.
      Vietnam war (1955-1975) wasn”t about religions also.
      Human history were full of violents. Judeo-Christian recorded it the way as it is. Even your own comment were full of hatred and violents. You are far from the peace itself.

      1. Patrick Gannon Reply

        Tomes, I agree that men go to war over other things besides religion, but it’s undeniable that humans have been killing each other over imaginary invisible beings that live in the sky for thousands and thousands of years. Removing religion just removes one of the things that we have to kill each other over.
        Why can’t the Vietnam war be seen as a quasi-religious war? You have Christians invading Buddhists, even though the war wasn’t specifically about religion, how much easier is it to kill an enemy when they don’t believe in the same god you do? I think it was this realization that finally got Europeans to stop killing each other over god, and once they did that, the killing pretty much stopped altogether.
        My comments were full of hatred and violence? In what way? I suggested that we “chill out” and let your god handle it, since He’s already decided who will win.

      1. Patrick Gannon Reply

        The question isn’t why am I angry. The question is – why isn’t everyone angry that religion continues to be a, or the, leading force for warfare. How long are we going to put up with this as a human race? The author gave a fairly honest rendition of the problem. Christians invaded, then Muslims invaded, then Christians took over, and now its the Muslim’s turn again. How long do we let this go on, given that all of this killing is over a being (the Abrahamic god) whose very foundation has washed away? The only good thing about religious war is eliminating violent religionists from the gene pool when they kill each other. Unfortunately a lot of innocents always seem to get caught up in the bloodshed.

      2. Barbara adams Reply

        The sooner people believe that Jesus came to save us the better and that. IS is The face of the devi. And that the devil has many faces who is trying to distroy Christianity but it will fail

    2. Ronnie Buda (@rsjb63) Reply

      Patrick Gannon: Over the course of Christianity (2,000 yrs), 2.65 million murdered in the name of Christianity while 305 million killed in the name of atheism, communism, nationalistic socialism, within the last century alone. I chose religion.

      1. Patrick Gannon Reply

        Nice numbers – but nobody was killed “in the name of atheism.” People were killed over ideologies that closely resembled religions, but I don’t know of any war that was ever fought “in the name of atheism.” Even Hitler was a Catholic who never disavowed his religion. Who in their right mind is going to go and die in the “name of atheism?” That’s ludicrous.
        How many deaths are Christians responsible for in new worlds, like America, where some 100 million natives – worse than the holocaust – were killed by Christians from Europe?

    3. phaenius Reply

      The term PREVAIL does not mean like the church is in a fort and resists the onslaughts of armies in some sort of siege. It is quite the reverse, but I have to take it according to the Bible and not Catholic dogma. Every assembly or congregation of a true church is a complete body of Christ as hinted in Matthew 18 where according to the law of two or three witnesses that establishes a matter as first spoken of in the Torah of Moses (churches made up of people must have at least TWO or THREE MEMBERS to be a testimony to the world) if two or three persecuted immersed Christians gather in a safe place, they then assemble themselves as a congregation, and if so, there is where Christ is as head. When the Jerusalem church (only time the church was ONE of all the believers) was persecuted and split by that persecution, the members fled in all directions and suddenly there were CHURCHES, and this is how it has been since. Every church then lies in ambushment against any local gate of hell and then the CHURCH is advancing, spiritually, against the powers holding the elect captive behind those gates of hell (their destination if they do not have Christ), and passing through such gates, they rescue the souls by the gospel.

      The Bible specifically says Christianity will not be advanced by the sword, and it never has (though things called churches have done so), for it is governments that are ordained by God to protect the righteous by being the secular sword or management of the force of the community, or basically all of us who can hold weapons.

      2 Corinthians 10:3-6 (KJV)

      3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
      4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
      5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
      6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

      Our weapon is the persuasion of the Gospel where God actually does the drawing of folk to Christ, not our holding some weapon of iron against their backsides pushing them to the alter. It is why the Baptist Pastor named Leonard Busher pleaded with King James in his RELIGIOUS FREEDOM or the Liberty of Conscience in 1615 to consider not persecuting Christians not named as some established religion like the Anglican or in Europe the Catholics. He even, when you consider words, pled for in the first time in the English language in a publication for a FREEDOM OF THE PRESS, and ironically EVEN FOR THE PAPISTS, credible as long as they use the BIBLE not their traditions for arguments of things that Christians must do.

      Too bad you have no cotton picking understanding of SCIENCE (or Sciencia in Latin for KNOWLEDGE ad GNOSIS is the Greek for KNOWLEDGE). The Scientific method is based upon this law of two or three witnesses that establishes a matter concerning how rigorous the Bible writers dealt with eyewitness testimony which is a major part of the Christian derived SCIENTIFIC METHOD, though a search for knowledge is an ancient art. This scientific method was the basis for the chemistry, biology, physics which for the most part were developed by Christians to give the ancient search for knowledge some credibility, at least for things that could be SEEN, or OBSERVED by multiple witnesses if the event is singularly unique. Origins are completely out of the question for the scientific methodology since such cannot be seen. Now while I am not a Catholic, and my sect has been under persecution by the Catholics in times past, at least I appreciate these Scientists who were many times of the Catholic faith, as I am of those who stopped the advance of Islam into Europe. I even appreciate the modern American Catholics who tasted in America, even amid some local persecutions of protestants here who had reason to worry about them in Europe, this liberty of conscience which they embraced and considering Rhode Island being Baptist, by taking in the persecuted of Catholic faith and of some others, the Catholics prospered so much it is now two thirds Catholic and the Baptist sought haven in the Heaven of Texas, which in a way is a better place. I even wanted CATHOLIC and BLACK Alan Keyes for my president over my hometown Midland, Texas homie, Georgie W. Bush, a while ago, because he KNEW and took on our founders concepts and willed to reinstate them were he able to.

      1. Patrick Gannon Reply

        “The Bible specifically says Christianity will not be advanced by the sword, and it never has (though things called churches have done so), for it is governments that are ordained by God to protect the righteous by being the secular sword or management of the force of the community, or basically all of us who can hold weapons."

        So Christianity is not to be spread by the sword, however Yahweh puts governments in charge who permit, indeed require that all who can hold weapons, spread Christianity by the sword (as “protecting the righteous" always involves killing those who aren’t among that group). In this way, Christians can pretend to be innocent because Yahweh put governments in charge who made them do it. I think that’s your argument. It’s Yahweh’s fault that terrorists hate the Catholic Church. OK, I can buy that.

        Basically you’ve agreed with me. Christianity under Yahweh’s direction, indirectly using governments, has been spread by the sword, and in this case Islamic terrorists (remember in their minds, they are the righteous ones), resent it. We can have religion or we can have peace, but we can’t have both as long as all of them must be wrong except the one we belong to.

        1. phaenius Reply

          You have always a mixed group in the community, including the likes of you, Mr. Gannon, who have as much power of communication in a notion founded upon the concept of Liberty of Conscience and the freedom of the press, BOTH CONCEPTS being a Biblically derived principle, that can sway even the best of political experiments such as ours, and with more vigor, because what we basically are concerning some morality is offensive to the evil of this world. Our words, are powerful too, but only when the JHVH behind them direct them to the hearts, to the minds that are only truthful to themselves in the dark of night hidden in their closets, like yours is when not provoked to justify your lack.

          I am not Catholic, they were a political foe in Europe, and a persecutor of the likes of me, and, yet, in America until they can be enlightened fully, about the JHVH/JESUS of our common archive of testimony we call the Bible, were they to give credence ONLY to that source, those willing to embrace and defend this concept of Liberty of Conscience, can agree with us to defend against others who come after us with a sword (and all that which this metaphor suggests).

          But even these governments can go off course when the righteous are not truly guiding them, like in our past hundred and so years where politics seems too dirty for the lazy Christian to be involved in. I am not too sure we are fighting anyone BECAUSE they are a threat to the safety of the righteous American, because there are other interests, largely directed by people similar in disbelief as you, or even those dark lords YOU despise as well, since Satan apparently is not truly affectionate to any of humanity.

          The current wordspeak seems to be to spread Democracy, as substitute for the type of Constitutional Republic we originally are represented by, to the world that cannot even be prepared for it unless the majority is of the type of faith, generally more Protestant, than even we are today. Democracy is worthless to LIBERTY when the people in choosing their form of government is of a mind to choose the anti-freedom concept of Islam or socialism or even any OTHER world view out there that is controlled by the dark side. I make no apology that I am biased toward that which REALLY allows us more Liberty and is truly affectionate to the survival of innocent life, even if I have to share it with non-believers who just happens to enjoy not being trident poked concerning every aspect of life. There ARE those seemed oppressed when in the evil of their heart they actually seek contradictory virtues to Liberty such as that of the LICENSE John Locke, who himself was but a near Christian, speaks of that is deleterious to innocent life, to be offended by, just for the thrill of being contrarian. You speak of the “all of them must be wrong except the one we belong to.” Our Biblically derived Liberty of Conscience actually allows us to live among those unbelievers who do not want draconian government interfering with their lives. This effort of the likes of us is the best we can do to live up to Paul’s admonition:

          Romans 12:18-21 (KJV)
          18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
          19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
          20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
          21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

          This is the society that individuals of the likes of us hope to work in, to allow the unbeliever a bit of space to make his decisions, mainly because we all go through that stage before God reveals to the elect of us that we are objects of His mercy, and if you just take it on the basis of self preservation, we would hate to be wounded coming into the community of the righteous. When we are not forced to duck for incoming, we advance Christianity without use of the sword. But INCOMING does happen, even in our society, and the government is that which deals with those who despise innocent life who live in the world of LICENSE, I guess the keyword is when it comes to protecting INNOCENT LIFE, not morals, we resort to weapons. It is the same with our reaction to the world outside our national borders. If those come to take our innocent lives, deprive us of Liberty once we have been made free within our border, or property that maintains our innocent lives, Saint and sinner of us in America are obligated to protect this Liberty.

          There IS NOT GOING to be peace. We have no hope in our current age this side of what we call the rapture to have a Theocracy that folk claim we are trying to have in America, mainly because a true Theocracy would have God directly and visibly leading us with prophets and such. That will come, but not through our efforts and even that of a very pristine CHRISTIAN America, because the Camelot concept of AMERICA is our best efforts toward peace or to live PEACEABLY with all, with the caveats of IF IT BE POSSIBLE and AS MUCH AS LIETH IN YOU (or us of the righteous).

          If America is using a sword right now against others, it is NOT us the leaders of Christianity guiding it unless against those who in spite of our patience insists on destroying us. The communists were such, and now it seems this Islam renewal, but while we do not desire it, we are not too surprised because even our Bible talks of turmoil, but since America is Christianity’s BEST effort to date, I am not willing to give it up, because out there, there is NO refuge for the likes of me.

          If you are agreeing that darkness hates light. I can live with that. If you are hinting if we get RID of the light, there will be peace, there is that parting of ways. Yep, its ALL OF THEM against us. YEP, if it means that by believing Jesus when He says, “I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE, and NO MAN COMETH UNTO THE FATHER BUT BY ME, is bigotry, then when you paint that b on my back, make it a capital B. But I am not going to come after you with a sword to change your mind, but you are not going to stop me telling this truth as found in our Bible. I was made FREE and I am going to USE it to remain free.

          1. Patrick Gannon

            You’re not a Catholic, and the original post is about why terrorists hate Catholics, and I’m not sure where you’;re going with your posts that seem to have little or nothing to do with this subject.
            As best I can tell, you are a fundamentalist evangelical, and I would love to watch you debate Catholics, rather than me. I already have a deal with a fundy friend that I can come and get all their stuff after they get raptured. (In my mind, the rapture is a big UFO going by that stops for an interstellar lunch treat).
            George Bush was one of you, and he had no problems wielding a sword, but for some reason the Catholics think the terrorists are mad at them instead of the fundamentalists like him who sent our kids to get blown up over there for no good reason.

          2. phaenius

            I appreciated the Catholics when we Baptists and photo-Baptists were too weak to defend ourselves against the Islamic onslaughts, as I appreciate Jefferson, whom my Baptist spiritual forefathers, supported because he tried to help us as well in a political sense. If I had my druthers, I would have had CATHOLIC and BLACK Alan Keyes for my president over my GEORGIE W. BUSH fellow Midland, Texas homeowner homey. The Catholic somewhat hesitant response to Islamic adventurism was basically that A RESPONSE whether or not they included incentives that were not so always that of self preservation.

            My original discussion or entrance into this was to correct a theological concept concerning the word PREVAIL. That was an offensive term weather than defensive in nature. In the spiritual front where we can spiritually confront the Gates of Hell in reference to people’s souls, the church’s position is to besiege those things that cause folk to be trapped in error, by the powerful words as found in the Corinthian statement of Paul concerning our warfare.

          3. Patrick Gannon

            The word “prevail” simply means: prove more powerful than opposing forces; be victorious. I’ve read the bible a few times and that is the sense in which the word is used most of the time. Occasionally it means, ‘to be widespread in a particular area at a particular time; be current, as in,”an atmosphere of crisis prevails” and it can also mean to persuade (someone) to do something. In the quoted passage, some versions translate it as ‘the gates of Hell (Hades in this case), will not overcome it.’ That makes the Church out to be a fortress as far as I’m concerned – a fortress from which to launch attacks on others who happen not to believe the same things.

          4. phaenius

            On this one thing I am actually having a hard time to NOT agree with what you are saying, and how the English of this is used. I AM saying that the church or rather a local, visible assembly, in that there is no such thing as ONE UNIVERSAL INVISIBLE or even VISIBLE ASSEMBLY, for an assembly may be as small as two or three, is in fact ON THE MARCH AGAINST in a manner of warfare that it can only be capable of, basically, in testifying the gospel to every part of the world that every true assembly of Christ has launched itself at. Am I not ALMOST saying what you are referring to? “from which to launch attacks on others who happen not to believe the same things.” The assembly is founded upon the WORDS of the saying,

            Matthew 16:16 (KJV)
            16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.

            This is the portable tool AGAINST the things of Satan, including his “gates of Hell.”

            I don’t doubt that the Gates of Hell are the sally ports of hordes of error laden fiends and that they assault the assembly, but since the words of the Gospel are actually offensive weapons, not defensive, for you remember what I quoted before:

            2 Corinthians 10:3-6 (KJV)

            3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
            4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
            5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
            6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

            So even taking your generalized definition of simply “prove more powerful than opposing forces,” since GATES are fixed places in edifices THAT MAY EXALT ITSELF AGAINST THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD, as being FIXED, and a defensive feature, it can only HOLD OUT AGAINST A FORCE and thus prove superior, OR SUPERIOR forces moving against the GATE prove more powerful and the edifice is breached…check mate.

            Apparently the Gate has no future it will simply NOT HOLD OUT (prevail or prove more powerful) than the OFFENSIVE TOOL of the established truth that JESUS is the CHRIST, the SON OF THE LIVING GOD” that DOES PREVAIL.

            The law of two or three witnesses defines in application the church as seen in Matthew 18:

            Matthew 18:16-20 (KJV)

            16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESS EVERY WORD BE ESTABLISHED
            17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
            18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
            19 Again I say unto you, That if TWO of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
            20 For where TWO OR THREE ARE GATHERED TOGETHER IN MY NAME, there am I in the midst of them.

            Gathering together is synonymous to BEING ASSEMBLED in a church (assembly) sense.

            One person is NOT a church and alone may not be able to prevail against another or hold out against ONE who might be superior in power to him. But we have this type of proverb or preaching point in the Bible concerning an application of the Torah law of two or three witnesses that Moses introduced concerning judgments, as paraphrased “in the mouth of ONE WITNESS shall NO man be put to death, but in the mouth of WITNESSES, TWO OR THREE, shall a matter be established:”

            Ecclesiastes 4:12 (KJV)
            12 And if one prevail against him, two shall withstand him; and a threefold cord is not quickly broken.

            Here we have your case of one trying to hold out against another though more powerful ONE. When the besieged calls 911 and a knight in shining honor comes to assist, then there is more power than any ONE, and where the ONE once PREVAILED in his assault, the TWO withstand the assault, and there is this added commentary that ties this as an application of the law of two or three witnesses that establishes a matter, “a THREEfold cord is NOT QUICKLY BROKEN.

            But again, the GATE is a fixed feature with only the ability to hold off a breach or in case of superior power is indeed breached. So Jesus says the church in its assault on that local gate of Hell the church is located in ambusheshment before (two or three gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them) and in application of the gospel (since no WEAPON of steel can be used) the fixed gate is breached and thus cannot prevail (or prove more powerful than) the assault.

            Of course these are tedious things that can be determined in an archive of testimony you are not willing to have any confidence in, but I won’t fault you in participating in the discussion, and while the lesson may not fall on you, others may be comforted. I do know that the elect of God are unknown and are found just about anywhere, and when such words are placed in their ears, GOD will do that which is necessary to bring them out of the chains of the enemy and retrieve them through the failed gates of Hell they would have otherwise have been confined behind. And that is the actual thrust of Jesus’ message, not that we go out of our way and kill unbelievers…this is GOD’S bailiwick. We were ALL unbelievers at one time. Since we do NOT know who are the elect, we broadcast to ALL our unconditional love if we are able, and if we have to duck, we have government that tries to protect us in our liberty to persuade people that we are unable to compel to obedience to the word by some sword. There is a bit of reason here.

    4. Patrick Cannon Reply

      Patrick Gannon, You are the King of Hatred.

      1. Patrick Gannon Reply

        Wow – our names are that similar?
        Who is it, exactly that you think I hate? I certainly don’t hate my fellow humans enough that I would ever want to see any one of them, for any reason whatsoever, to suffer eternal punishment in hellfire – as does your god, if he is as your Church says he is. To send a mere mortal human who lives but a handful of decades to billions and trillions of eternal years of torment simply for failing to believe, say or do the right things as dictated by an Iron Age church, is about as hateful a thing as anyone could possibly imagine.

        I hate the unnecessary shame, guilt and fear that the RCC inflicts on people for its own selfish purposes. Jesus, if he existed, always railed against the clergy, and if he was here today, he’d surely be railing away at your disordered Church.

  2. jaimcito Reply

    Yawn. He knows. He likes to stir the pot after he reads all the articles and wants to believe but…..well, you know the tired dissertations.

  3. Gallibus Reply

    Who is this wanna-be oracle? He sounds like he believes he created himself. Perhaps this is just his delusion characterizing this time in his life. Hopefully, he will pass on to allow wisdom to penetrate past this view of himself as the be-all and center of the Universe.

  4. Wanjala Reply

    War is an interest of very few individuals, worriers actually pay the prize of what they really dont understand and at no point they realize the benefit of the same war their are in.

  5. Leo Apolinar Escarpe Reply

    Patrick Gannon did you not noticed the way express your thoughts seems you became another face of the devil.?

    1. Patrick Gannon Reply

      What devil? Prove to me that the devil exists; and then prove to me that the devil is more evil than Yahweh. In the bible, Yahweh kills millions of people, most of whom are innocent. Satan kills Job’s family with Yahweh’s permission as part of a bet (if indeed Satan does the killing – the text is unclear). It’s much safer to be a human in the company of Satan than in the company of a genocidal Yahweh. Keep in mind as well that Satan told the truth and Yahweh lied when he told the kids that on the day they ate of the fruit of good and evil they would die.

      In some early texts – mostly gnostic – that did not make the bible for obvious reasons, Yahweh is the bad guy and Jesus is to fight him in the firmament in order to save us from Him. It is likely out of these myths that Paul came up with his celestial demigod, whom the author of Mark later turned into a real person.
      But of course we have absolutely no objective evidence that either of these imaginary beings (Yahweh and Satan) actually exists; and living our lives as though they do is a type of insanity.

      1. phaenius Reply

        While we are not in the age to produce “evidence” such as special miracles or healing or demand appearances or apparitions (I have no confidence in the charismatic movement saying things contrary to what the Bible indicates and that only the practice of agape or unconditional love sometimes translated charity being the only credibility giving gifts left the church age saints) we do have the imaginations of men using cosmic big bang ideas that seem to mirror the celestial big bang theory of the Lucifer or Satan or Devil of the Bible as the reason for the doubt of Lucifer as to the real nature of JHVH GODS (or Elohim plural of God in a sense of the trinity). I could see Lucifer becoming self aware after his creation and on his left hand he sees a more powerful spiritual being and on his right the lessor angels STILL in the confusion of their being aware. Noticing that Lucifer himself was faster at this self awareness than those lower glories of his fellow angels, he would suspect later that the greater glory of God might have allowed Him to be faster in self awareness than Lucifer’s lower glory and thought as his DEFECT God speaks of that the “God” glory might have ALSO been created in this Celestial Big bang (theory) and in taking advantage of it insisted He was actually the CREATOR so as to gain ascendency over the lesser glories such as Lucifer and his comrades. Noticing in the creation that there would be HUMAN spirits of the likes of the Angels as spirits, continuing to appear, Lucifer conceited that by gathering those spirits to him along with the third he was able to deceive of the angels, he would be able to rise above the greater glory of God Himself. His disrespect (outside of his respect of the power of the greater glory) of the claims of JHVH is why he attacked the GOD of THE GODS (elohim or trinity) called JESUS having a newly acquired human body in seeing if He could draw even THAT portion of the GODS (ELOHIM or trinity) to himself.

        God created man as a mirror of himself, and as a Creator, we have also, though tainted in our fall to have KNOWLEDGE of good and evil, derive our OWN creations in our mind (science fiction) of how OUR creation would be if WE were indeed creators, and this BIG BANG of the things called scientists today to derive an origin of the Universe sans an idea of a personal CREATOR, is but a mirror of LUCIFER’S imagination of a Celestial Big Bang, when God said

        Ezekiel 28:14-15 (KJV)
        14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
        15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

        God was talking through the King of Tyros to Lucifer as Jesus talked through Peter to Satan.

        So while we do not have direct evidence, we do have hints on how this Lucifer, Satan, Devil, who had close access to God as to have been one of the Angels that covereth, to have doubted even JHVH that he was his creator, by the imaginations of men like yourself who do not desire to have God reign over you.

        1. Patrick Gannon Reply

          I’m sorry, but I read this through a couple times, and it’s incoherent to me. We don’t have direct (objective, empirical) evidence for any gods or afterlives, and that’s all there is to it. If such evidence existed, there would be no need to debate it.
          You may be interested in reading a collection of ancient texts written prior to and slightly after the time of Jesus’ supposed ministry. “The Other Bible" includes early texts, some Christian, in which Yahweh is your Lucifer. He is a secondary god to the God of Light and Jesus role is to save us from him – in a sacrifice above the firmament. Also, I would have to go seek out sources again, but there was more than one God originally. Yahweh was the god of war, and married to Asherah, and the Jews were told to worship no gods before him – not that other gods didn’t exist. In time, Yahweh became the only god as the bible was edited, redacted and added to.

          1. phaenius

            Perhaps the gist of what I was saying is that the creations of mens minds concerning a physical celestial big bang to get around a concept of a Personal God creating all of this, might mirror, from hints given in the Bible, the source of the great “iniquity” that was found in the deceiver of our human race. Since this hint is found in the Hebrew Bible, I am not going to be too interested in so called other CHRISTIAN texts that make JHVH the Lucifer. I will admit it here in concert with the sentiment of Jesus in those Christian texts I accept, that the Hebrew Bible is not to be contradicted (I am not saying that JUDAISM as we see it in its forms today, is not to be contradicted, but that of the original Hebrew RELIGION).

            The Jews had a faith in JHVH, and the Christians have a faith in JHVH.

            The Jews had a RELIGION based on the faith in JHVH, and the Christians have a RELIGION based on the faith in JHVH.

            The Hebrew Bible deals primarily with the RELIGION in reference to the Jews, and the Christian scriptures deals primarily with the FAITH, and this is the difference, not that we actually have two different world views.

            The Hebrew Bible tends to make secondarily the FAITH, and the Christian literature makes secondarily the RELIGION.

            The confusion in the Christian world is when the Catholics and other sects try to make primary the RELIGION.

            Now RELIGION is things that we mainly DO (and governments are dealing with things we DO), and HERE is where things go a bit screwy in that the things that must be DONE BY RELIGION were seen by some, actually one I can’t remember the name of on the tip of my 70 year old tongue, more conveniently done by the SWORD OF THE GOVERNMENT since it might have been thought they were more experienced in compelling folk by that tool. When Catholics gave that up, and we provided in America a haven for those Catholics willing to follow the admonition of Paul in Romans 12:18, even in our messy American History of its founding, we lived in a modicum of peace, at least amongst ourselves. This is the best we could hope for, and why in spite of the messiness we feel we have a society with the most Liberty that can be expected, one that merits our best to continue.

            As far as the the Asherah is concerned, the Hebrews were never the greatest in wanting to follow the one ELOHIM (a plurality that indicates the trinity in the Hebrew scriptures when applied to JHVH) and were continually taking up this or that other deity and attributing to that the main attributes God exhibited on the Mountain during the Exodus. HECK, even while at the base of the mount, they were doing that, by attributing to a calf those attributes of the JHVH who was leading them out of Egypt:

            Exodus 32:1-4 (KJV)
            1 And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.
            2 And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them unto me.
            3 And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron.
            4 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.

            If this is the attitude of the Hebrews when they were in the presence of JHVH they were not allowed to look upon, I would not be surprised that we find evidence of all sorts of things associated with JHVH. If you notice it was this one calf they were calling ELOHIM or plurality…but in their minds they would notice something missing, and every great god in their experience had a consort thus an Asherah, and remember when the kingdom split, and the Jews kept their temple and thus a hidden Deity, the northern kingdom took the same RELIGION but dedicated IT to some calves as well. Your concept of redaction and such is based on an already debunked theory in Bible criticism, and advanced by those that seem to actually have a hatred toward that Bible. As for “told not to worship no gods before him.” Moses admitted already these be the gods in the land in the imaginations of the people of the land they were going to dispossess…not that they had any reality in the spiritual world JHVH exists in.

  6. Fernando Mancheno Reply

    God is with us, and we will follow the one and only church, god bless everyone and bring peace among Men.

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