If Catholic is the true Church, why are Protestants making more converts?
Full Question
If the Catholic Church is the true Church, why is it that Evangelical Protestants are more successful in making converts?
Answer
Having success in making converts isn’t any proof of the truth of a religion. If so, the Jehova’s Witnesses would be the true religion since they are growing even faster than Evangelical Protestantism.
On the other hand, failure to make converts doesn’t prove a religion is false either. In Jesus’ time, there were many who flocked around him. Everyone was interested in his Life; everyone who heard was interested. However, many were interested for the wrong reasons. Only a small minority of his contemporaries accepted his message and yet that didn’t make his messianic claims false.
They have been successful at making converts largely because they make better use of their partial truth more than Catholics are making of their more complete truth. Also, Catholics don’t do any door-to-door evangelism, that’s
Another thing to remember is RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults)
This is another huge factor as to why there are fewer converts to the Catholic Church than evangelicals. Before an adult can join the Catholic Church they’d have to go through the RCIA process which starts at a fixed period. Usually ending around Easter.
The Rite of Election includes the enrollment of names of all the Catechumens seeking baptism at the coming Easter Vigil. Typically, on the first Sunday of Lent, the Catechumens, their sponsors and families gather at the cathedral church. The Catechumens publicly express their desire for baptism to the diocesan bishop.
USCCB
So, what happens if the person comes in December? They would have to wait months to receive baptism and communion. In contrast, walking into a protestant church is tantamount to becoming a member. It’s basically “write your name here, you’re in”. No catechesis, no grooming, no screening of any kind.
Finally
There is something to admire in the Evangelical system. These people do not know God the way the Catholic Church does. Nor do they have the same Apostolic power as we do. However, these guys study hard. And this is admirable. Most of their members receive regular evangelical training. Even though there’s little understanding of scripture, but the stuff they believe, they believe fiercely enough to teach it. Most Catholics don’t know any more than the few things they recall from childhood catechism. But the actual meanings of what we recite every time at mass are lost. So, most Catholics cant really evangelize, cant share their faiths with others because they themselves don’t understand their own faith.
If the Catholic Church is the true Church, why are Protestants more successful in making Catholic is the true Church, why are Protestants making more converts?Kindly leave a comment
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They take st. Paul’s advice of leaving traditions behind allowing the law to be fulfilled simply by Jesus command to love thy neighbor and God.
Not everyone can do Eucharist or Mass.
Apocryphal books don’t jive with old and new testament preaching.
Also Catholics are usually high church with icons. Protestant churces obey the command of not having engraving images risking worship as gods before God.
Messianic Jews are bridging the gap between Jesus practice and the rabbis. No idols nor engraved images. Jewish evangelicals who under stand biblical truth history and literature.
Back to this saith the Lord thy God.
Too many think the Catholics worship virgin Mary and the saints and ignore Jesus. Anyone watching EWTN would know better. The Eucharist style church’s speak the truth but are burdened with a history that somehow discredits them.
Broods of hypocrites and vipers? No!
Just stuck with tradition.
Those who do as Moses did with the sukkot and the ark of the covenant and do Billy Graham style visits will prosper in theatres and arenas.
Most churches are not so open air and modestly garnished.
They should realise as the Gnostics say that the kingdom of God is within you. Nicky Gumbel of the Anglican Church emphasizes we are the church.
Because Protestants tickle the ears and give people what they want, not the tough truth of the Gospel. Assurance of salvation. Once saved always saved. Divorce. Birth control. et al
Such ignorance. Protestants bring people in because they are of the world and their faith organizations were started by man, not God. People are told lies and they believe them. To ignorant to actually even research the beginnings of the Church. I tell everyone. Go and read the Didache, which is online and was one of the earliest documents. Go read St. Justin’s apologia to the emperor regarding what Christians believe. He wrote this around the year 110 and it was to try to convince the emperor to stop persecuting Christians. I dare you to read his letters. Then, look and see if your faith group follows the same things that the very first Christians followed. If you can’t believe writings from that date, than you can remain in your delusion. Jesus Christ started a physical church with the Apostles and it is still in existence. Everything else is of man. One last piece of advice………..read the Gospel of John, chapter 6. The whole chapter. Then ask yourself do you follow Jesus in what He taught or are you calling Him a liar?
The Catholic church is a Sanctuary where even the Protestants and their likes run to when everything fails. A Catholic who lives according to the dictates of Christ in truth and in spirit is already evangelising through their way of life. We should all strive to lead by example and we would be amazed at how attractive the Catholic Church would become to the entire human race.
Pope Francis has criticized evangelization with the purpose of conversion. His idea of evangelization is acceptance and “dialogue.” Such a view is not confined to Francis. Indeed, Francis could never have been elected Pope without the ardent support of the Church hierarchy. Without the backing of Church leaders, evangelization for the expressed purpose of conversion has become passe- another pre-Vatican II throwback to be relegated to the dust of time.
The devil has been trying to destroy the Catholic church for two thousands some years because he Knows that it was created by Jesus-Christ. The catholic church is not trying to gain more followers God gave us the freedom to live our lives as we have chosen. The protestants always competing among themselves. That is why I heard many times they talking about that church as more people than that other one.
Just do your thing and don’t pay attention to the catholic church because you cannot understand it. Talk to the prostestants pastors that have converted to Catholicism, there are so many of them. Anyway, at the end everybody will be joined together under the Eucharist like it or not. God bless all of you!
It appears that you all hate each other. Regardless of what denomination you are, if you have faith in God, you will be good to each other , respect and help each other, love each other, do things that will do good to every human being, be generous with your time to someone who really needs it, help the poor, to sum it all up be a good person and good human being and you will be rewarded.
abortion (killing innocent baby) is prohibited. homosexuality (same sex for no result…like giving a birth is impossible) is totally unacceptable, birth control ( meddling in the work of God and trying to stop the continuity of creation which is given to creatures of opposite sex) is prohibited. seeing these, do you want to be Catholic or move somewhere else where you do whatever you want? choosing not to convert to Catholicism doesn’t make, there is something wrong with the catholic church. the door to everlasting life is too narrow…those who fight for it ( keeping the will of God) will enter
One word. “Psywar!”
The last time I checked, the men of the Catholic Church don’t own their own airplanes and live in multi-million $ homes. Surely you don’t approve of the various televangelists lifestyles?
for the original question as to how/why break-away churches are able to influence/change more people than the RC Church, i think this would be an eye-opener.
HOW GOD DEALS WITH REBELLION:
As I pondered the phenomenon of Protestant Reformation, I wondered why God would allow such rebellion to arise and flourish. So I looked to what Scripture said about such rebellion. I saw that rather than sending immediate destruction upon the rebellious, as in the case of Korah [cf. Num.16:1 ff], God sometimes gave those who rebelled exactly what they ASKED for, BUT with A PUNITIVE TWIST.
For example, when the Jews complained to God that they were tired of eating manna and wanted meat, God dealt with their rebellion, saying, “You want meat? I’ll give you meat. In fact, I’ll give you so much meat it will come out of your nostrils until you are sick of it.” God caused a great plague, probably due to spoiled meat, that killed many in the wilderness [Num.11:18-20]. The people recognized this punishment for their ingratitude and rebellion and repented, [but within a few years they were once again straying from God].
One of the signs of a deteriorating society is a high divorce rate; this was certainly true in ancient Israel. Rather than CONTINUALLY PLEADING with them to stop, God ALLOWED Israel to have their divorces as a sign of their hard-heartedness against Him [Matt.19:8, Jn.12:39-40]. They wanted their own way. So God allowed them to HAVE their own way, allowing them to sink into apostasy. In the end, God gave Israel a taste of their own medicine, using the very same divorce law for which they had CLAMORED, to “divorce” Himself from that spiritually adulterous nation [cf. Is.50:1, Jer.3:8].
When the Israelites didn’t want God to be their King, asking instead for an earthly king, God knew they were rejecting Him. So He turned them over to wicked earthly kings [1 Sam.8:1 f]. Only later did they realize that when God was their King He has been sparing them the treachery of earthly rulers. Most of Israel’s kings were very wicked, leading many people into idolatry and destruction. God ALLOWED these rebellions TO RUN THEIR COURSES but worked out His secret plan, nonetheless.
I believe God has dealt similarly with the Protestant rebellion against the Catholic Church. If God spoke now as He spoke in Numbers 11, He might say: “You want a different church? I’ll give you a different church. In fact, I’ll give you so many churches you won’t be able to count them all.”
Isn’t this exactly what has happened? God has given the protesters what they wanted – AND MUCH MORE: one long, continuous line of protestors – protestors protesting against the Catholic Church and protestors protesting against their fellow protestors. This plague of “Protestantism” has spawned thousands of quarrelling sects. Time itself has shown that Protestantism is not God’s plan for His Church…
[From the book SURPRISED BY TRUTH by Patrick Madrid – The Testimony of Bob Sungenis]
I don’t know if the authors ever check these comments, but this evangelical minister was not the least offended by this article. I’m from a Wesleyan denomination, so we have a bit more in common with Catholics than Calvinists. In my ministry, as you might expect, I encountered many who were raised Catholic – and in the vast majority of cases, God used that foundation. Yes, I have seen both people who were raised Catholic and those who were lapsed Catholic come to a personal faith in Jesus Christ. Some remained within the evangelical church – while others became active Catholics. In my book, either outcome is a victory for Christ.
I personally praise God for the progress that has been made towards healing the division among Christians – however, even with that division, we are united by the Holy Spirit. Additionally, we are united by a common core of Christian beliefs. For instance, I have been in Churches where we used the Apostle’s Creed regularly. The truths in that statement of faith are truths we hold in common. Additionally, the last three Popes have been willing to acknowledge core truths in our doctrines. More than this, at least in America, the Catholic Church has been willing to join in evangelistic efforts alongside evangelical churches.
I have infinitely more in common with a Catholic believer who believes in the inspiration and authority of Scripture, who believes in the Virgin Birth, who believes in Christ’s death upon the Cross for us, who believes in the resurrection and in Christ’s return than I do with a theologically liberal Protestant who denies some or all of these things.
Being Evangelical is not really about denominations. It is about a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and sharing the life change ospel of Jesus Christ. Since my salvation at age 18, I have been privileged to know many Catholics who also had a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. One of them was a Priest. I firmly believe that it is quite possible to be an “evangelical Catholic” – even if some Catholics and many evangelicals do not believe that such people exist.
As far as the relationships between our Churches is concerned, there are several ways we can do ecuminism:
1) We can decide that doctrine isn’t all that important, so why bother with it? This approach is typically used by theological liberals.
2) We can decide that either Catholics or evangelicals (whichever we aren’t) are not really Christians at all. This approach is typically used by theological hyper-conservatives.
3) We can agree that doctrine is very important – and then decide to rally around the core Christian beliefs we share as brothers and sisters in Christ. I prefer this approach 🙂
Pope Francis demonstrated this attitude when he went to worship with Italian evangelicals. Not everyone was in agreement with his actions, at least in the press. When asked why he had done this, his reply was “I went to be with my brothers”.
Amen to that!
Have you ever wondered why a Catholic can visit a Protestant church (I can only attest to the churches that I’ve attended/visited) and freely and unashamedly take communion with us….but a Protestant cannot visit a Catholic church and take communion with them without permission? This is what happens to a cult who’s leader believes that he is Christ’s replacement here on earth. This is what happens when a cult believes that only a priest can absolve some sins. This is what happens when a cult teaches that you can pray to dead people and that they will answer your prayers. This is what happens when a cult worships idols. This is what happens when a cult believes that He needs our help.
“The latest polls show that the “Nones” are galloping past the faithful.” Let ’em gallop their way to hell. Might does not make right. Sorry. Truth is not determined by how many people believe it. And whether you believe it or not, doesn’t change the fact that there is a God. Even if every person in the world refused to believe it, it’s not like He’s going to *poof!!* disappear. lol He’ll still exist.
“… who have had enough of Christianity ” Translation: “…who have had enough of morals.”
” they have come to know as “the religion of hostility to the other.” Translation: “If you disagree with me, and use logical arguments to shoot me down, then you are a religion of hostility”
“you seem to be a little more open minded than some others.” Translation: “I do wish, however, that you were like me….so open minded that my brain fell out.”
The rest of your comment is just one big jumble of “I don’t know what the heck I’m talking about”.
I’m sorry….was that supposed to change the truth? Well….it didn’t. There still is a God, and you still have no idea what you’re talking about.
Define “success” Like….winning a battle but losing the war, such as atheists do? Or do you define success as wasting your whole life accumulating things only to lose it all and your eternal soul in the end. “What good is it to gain the whole world, but lose your soul?” (Paraphrased). It is of no good at all. But, understanding your extremely miniscule understanding of God and Christianity, I can see how it goes over your head. Not to mention that you’re a pathological liar and a deceiver. To which I ponder who actually takes you seriously, and would one who would believe a liar like you be truly “educated” or “successful”
How utterly arrogant of you. This Pope is moving “with the world”. One can only hope the smart Catholics of which you speak can see it.
It’s obviously way over your simple-minded head.
Trying to explain it to you is like trying to explain quantum physics to a 5 year old. Sorry. That’s your problem, not mine. You’re the one that enjoys being ignorant and then pretending you’re not.
The Catholic Church protestantised itself in the ’60s. So it no longer offers anything to differentiate itself. The protestants are better at leading people astray because they’ve been doing it so much longer. If the Catholic church returned to its true traditions, it will gain many more converts because people will be able to see the truth in the Church.
Ibelieve if anyone want to know God should know and follow his or her Baptism teaching, the words that comes out from Jesus mouth is the true words of God…I am a fijian man and l born R. Catholic, yes Catholic is true Gods churh here on earth.
Sorry to inform you that the RCC is an apostate church built upon lies and false doctrines. One of the best things to happen to Christianity is the Reformation, when God saved the Church from the grips of Catholicism.
That’s an easy answer: Because the RCC isn’t the true Church. duh
Patrick has said to me “Just because I was not encouraged to read it as a Catholic kid, I did in fact end up reading it cover to cover – several times. I wouldn’t say I „understand it“ because nobody living now can know exactly what was first intended by the writers, the origins of the stories, and of course there are no original manuscripts for any part of the bible.” Thanks for at least admitting you don’t understand the Bible. I see that doesn’t stop you from arguing with people who do. Yeah, you’re not very bright.
Why am I not surprised that you find the truth “unpolite” Do you need your safe place to go so you don’t have to hear the truth? It’s within reach. Just click on that little X in the upper right corner of your screen and you won’t have to hear the truth from me again. Probably why your atheist-lite. You can’t tolerate the truth
Patrick had said to me, “Yes, personal attacks are always good when you can’t answer a question” Yes, and the truth I pointed out is even better when I actually did answer your question. Ignoring both is the sign of a weak mind.
I am not writing this as a Catholic or Protestant, rather a Christian.
If one defines “Catholic” as the Nicene Creed has it, then one is “Catholic” if they are a Christian, be they Roman Catholic or Protestant.
One is only a Christian if they can truthfully confess that the LORD God Almighty, second member of the Holy Trinity, the LORD Jesus Christ, is their person LORD and Savior. – Apostles’, Nicene, Athanasian Creed, Dominus Iesus. This is based on Scriptures – Genesis 1:26, Isaiah 9:6, 44:6, John 1:1, 14, 8:58, Acts 4:12, Romans 10:9, 1 Corinthians 12:3, 1 John 4:1-6, and Revelation 1:8.
The requirements if a person is a Christian or not are found in Matthew 7, 25, and the Book of 1 John.
Enough with your fighting! Stop taking Ephesians 2:8,9 out of context, remember vs. 10, and try to understand what James Chapter 2 is saying. No, I am not Roman Catholic, I am a Christian, and refuse to go to an extreme declaring that NO Roman Catholic/Catholic is saved, most are not going to heaven, and most Protestants are not going to heaven either.
If you are not a “catholic” in the sense of the Nicene Creed you are NOT going to heaven, so I will say it, if the Protestant is NOT a “Catholic,” they are going to hell.
If the Last Judgement is about how much knowledge one has of the scripture, many protestants would go to the heaven. But if it is about how much one has loved his neighbour then many catholics would be on the right side.
All I can say is “Thank God for the Reformation that allowed God’s TRUE Church to come forth from the apostate “church” of the RCC. The RCC is built upon lies and false doctrines.
The Catholic Church blatantly and somewhat ignorantly ignore Jesus’ teachings and the rest of the bible. Praying to saints – against Gods word. Praying to Mary – against Gods word.
Making Mary a diety – against Gods word.
Praying to statues – against Gods word (and innately stupid)
Calling a priest “father” – against Gods word
Sign of the cross – against Gods word.
Repetitious prayers I.e. The rosary – against Gods word
Icons and statues – adamantly against Gods word
The belief of “purgatory” – against Gods word
Confessing sins to a priest – against Gods word
All that, plus the fact that the Catholic Church has shaken hands with the Rothschild’s for a monetary bail out. FACT!
Learn some humility. Getting on for 2000 years of saints and scholars of deeper knowledge of the Scriptures and holier lives have proved the truth – quite unlike your ignorant rant
No, it hasn’t been 2000 years of saints and scholars. Try more like 1600. duh. Why are Catholics such liars for?
Try 1600 years of false teaching and unbiblical doctrines
Hahahaha…how pathetic you must be to think that pointing out the truth is considered “going at each other’s throats” Probably because you, as an atheist, have been destroyed a number of times by the truth and that’s how you cope with it.
Agnostic. yeah, believing something’s out there, but don’t want to admit there is a God because that would make you accountable and you’d have to face who you really are. And it’s a good thing you put truth in quotes, because you are, in no way, interested in the truth. Only what makes you feel good and agrees with you.
This is spot on. I love this answer! As a former protestant, I can tell you that this is so completely true.
The Catholic Church is in a time of crisis. It is the one true faith. When you say evangelicals, how many “churches” is that? You are not talkling about one “church” but a bunch of man-made churches. Jesus promised them nothing, as a “church”. But He did promise us that the “gates of hell shall not prevail against us”. Yes, it looks bad for our Catholic Church but Jesus will keep His promise!!!!
The Bible says “Where there is unity God commands blessing”. When “the Church” encompassing all denominations wakes up to the fact we need to work together and not make side swipes or sly digs at each other that’s when we’ll ALL see more people come to Jesus. Isn’t that surely what it’s all about? The Bible also says that by our love for one another as the body of Christ they will know that we are Jesus’ disciples.
The real competition is the pubs and clubs and things that the world has to offer, not other Churches.
Let’s speak well of the Bride of Christ as a collective hey?
Clare, no such thinh as the Church as you describe it. Pro choice churches? Those that do not believe in the Eucharist? Confession? There is one Church and that is the Roman Catholic Church. I do not want any of your false beliefs.
Faith is about Jesus Christ, not a building or organized group of believers. The body of Christ is the one true church. This infighting between Christian religions is what will be our downfall. Christians stand up, stand proud, stand together.
Patrick,
Have you noticed how the public education system tries to get to the children very early in their lives with programs like Early Intervention. Why do you think they do that? Why is it that governments try to force their approved educational curricula (accreditation standards) upon their citizenry by passing mandatory education laws, and providing public funding for their public schools, but denying any form of public assistance to children whose parents would choose to have their children attend private (parochial) schools? They don’t give the latter any credit for the taxes they have been assessed to fund the “public schools”, even though they do not avail themselves of those “services”. So, parents who would choose to go to a private (parochial) school have to effectively pay twice for their children’s educations….what’s “fair” about that. Hmmh? Methinks there is no thought about “fairness”, but merely about “control”, specifically “mind control”, lol.
I think you are accurate in assessing that the more highly-educated a person becomes, the more likely they will be to become “ungodly”. This phenomenon is not necessarily proof that those persons are “more intelligent”, but they have been more thoroughly “brainwashed”, through more (longer-term) exposure to “ungodly” programming within the educational system. Do they really teach “critical thinking skills” in public education? Hmmh? http://www.asa3.org/ASA/education/think/critical.htm
Do people really “get smarter” by extended time in “educational institutions” or do they merely become “more thoroughly enculturated or acculturated” thereby making them appear to be “more socially acceptable”? http://www.differencebetween.com/difference-between-enculturation-and-vs-acculturation/
It is interesting that Christ wants his followers “…to be in the world, but not of the world”. What the heck does this all mean? I’ll let another “Christian” (not necessarily “Catholic”) explain it so I don’t have to write another thesis on the topic, lol See http://biblesforamerica.org/in-the-world-but-not-of-the-world/ and/or http://www.compellingtruth.org/in-world-not-of-world.html Please note, in particular, the following quote from the second of these links:
“Satan keeps human beings under his control by using the world. He uses anything and everything as part of his system to attract and occupy people. He controls some by their careers. Others he occupies by music. With others, he uses education.”
Yes, “education”, the whole “educational system”, if you will, is part of what I call “the Luciferian Construct” or “the World”. It encompasses the political system, the economic system, the banking system, the entertainment system, the religious system, the government system, the legal system, etc all working to keep GOD out of people’s lives. And, it only makes common sense, that the more of any of these things anyone is involved (part of) in, the less time he/she has for God.
I consider myself very fortunate to have had very good parents who took the time to teach me a lot of foundational things in my very early life, baptizing me into the Catholic Faith, taking me to Mass every Sunday, teaching me to say my morning prayers upon rising, saying my evening prayers before retiring for the night, praying the Holy Rosary daily, saying grace before and after meals, being thankful to God for EVERYTHING. They provided me with a very good Catholic education from Kindergarten through 4 years of High School and then one year at a prominent Catholic University. I finished my formal education at secular Universities for my B.S. and Masters degrees. I’m still a practicing Catholic, I still believe in God, I’m very well educated, highly intelligent, articulate. Yeah, I’m smart and successful.
The Catholic Church is the Deposit of the Christian Faith which includes both The Holy Bible and Tradition. Many of the tens of thousands of Protestant Churches/sects that have been formed since the days of the Protestant Reformation contain “part of the Truth, but for man-made reasons have chosen to ignore parts of the Truth that interfere with their World-view. It must be part of the Luciferian Plan of “divide and conquer”., lol. For those who believe in only the Bible, ask yourself how did Christianity spread so widely before the invention of the printing press that made the Bible available to the masses?
Good luck, Patrick, you’re going to need it….or something else, lol.
Pretty simple proposition. Since satan is called the prince of this world by Christ Jesus, and He also states in Luke, ” But yet the Son of man, when he cometh, shall he find, think you, faith on earth?”, then, the MASSIVELY divided sola scripturists, as each of the over 57,000 + sects CLEARLY demonstrate, each of whose members has the philosophical latitude to declare his own interpretation of Holy Writ singularly and uniquely correct by the dictates of his own ego (which neither he nor Martin Luther can or could master in humility), it is logically deducted that satan himself is in charge. The Holy Ghost does not divide, but unites. Thus, for 2,000 years the Catholic Church has survived intact, while the world threw herself against It, fruitlessly.
But this plain fact will have NO impact upon the egos of the PROTESTants whose protests indeed, for 2,000 years, have failed to destroy the Catholic Church.
Worse, the current troubles of the Church were prophesied by St. Nilus, viz:
The Prophecy of St. Nilus
After the year 1900, toward the middle of the 20th century, the people of that time will become unrecognizable. When the time for the Advent of the Antichrist approaches, people’s minds will grow cloudy from carnal passions, and dishonor and lawlessness will grow stronger. Then the world will become unrecognizable.
People’s appearances will change, and it will be impossible to distinguish men from women due to their shamelessness in dress and style of hair. These people will be cruel and will be like wild animals because of the temptations of the Antichrist. There will be no respect for parents and elders, love will disappear, and Christian pastors, Bishops and priests will become vain men, completely failing to distinguish the right-hand way from the left.
At that time, the morals and traditions of Christians and of the Church will change. People will abandon modesty, and dissipation will reign. Falsehood and greed will attain great proportions, and woe to those who pile up treasures. Lust, adultery, homosexuality, secret deeds and murder will rule in society.
Apostasy
At that future time, due to the power of such great crimes and licentiousness, people will be deprived of the grace of the Holy Spirit, which they received in Holy Baptism and equally of remorse.
The Churches of God will be deprived of God-fearing and pious pastors, and woe to the Christians remaining in the world at that time; they will completely lose their faith because they will lack the opportunity of seeing the light of knowledge from anyone at all. Then they will separate themselves out of the world in holy refuges in search of lightening their spiritual sufferings, but everywhere they will meet obstacles and constraints. And all this will result from the fact that the Antichrist wants to be Lord over everything and become the ruler of the whole universe, and he will produce miracles and fantastic signs.
Telephones, airplanes, submarines
He will also give depraved wisdom to an unhappy man so that he will discover a way by which one man can carry on a conversation with another from one end of the earth to the other. At that time men will also fly through the air like birds and descend to the bottom of the sea like fish. And when they have achieved all this, these unhappy people will spend their lives in comfort without knowing, poor souls, that it is deceit of the Antichrist. And, the impious one! – he will so complete science with vanity that it will go off the right path and lead people to lose faith in the existence of God in three hypostases.
The coming chastisement
Then the All-good God will see the downfall of the human race and will shorten the days for the sake of those few who are being saved, because the enemy wants to lead even the chosen into temptation, if that is possible… then the sword of chastisement will suddenly appear and kill the Perverter and his servants.
So, in sum, the Evangelicals are producing more converts for the simple fact that people’s egos are far stronger from all the indoctrination of the devil via the media cohorts that they can be Pope and Magistrium themselves. Does no one recall the exact same temptation of satan to Eve in the Garden of Eden?
3:4. And the serpent said to the woman: No, you shall not die the death.
3:5. For God doth know that in what day soever you shall eat thereof, your eyes shall be opened: and YOU SHALL BE AS GODS (my stress), knowing good and evil.
3:6. And the woman saw that the tree was good to eat, and fair to the eyes, and delightful to behold: and she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave to her husband, who did eat.
3:7. And the eyes of them both were opened: and when they perceived themselves to be naked, they sewed together fig leaves, and made themselves aprons.
Boom!
They did die. If you understood spiritual truths and the Bible, you’d realize that. Evolution is the biggest farce every taught by a human. It’s built upon lies and wishes.
The original Founder of the Catholic Church is “Jesus Christ Him Self”.
I think part of the reason that evangelicals make more converts than Catholics is that in some ways, it’s a lot tougher to be Catholic. We are exhorted at every Mass to be more, do more, follow Christ with our whole being. Many of the evangelicals I know don’t have to work that hard, and their spirituality isn’t nearly as deep as a result. Many of the sermons they hear are more self-congratulatory, and less geared toward a deep, enduring relationship with Christ that survives the hard times as well as the good.
I dont see any problem here, first the Bible being referred too, originality it was written by long time fathers (Catholics), secondly the whole thing is all about Christianity. If is to join moslem, then, there we can ague. Icall every thing baseless, its like leaving your fathers house and construct yours, even if it had no cement, still it remains your fathers house, even if you abuse it to whatever extent.
It’s always just important to learn to apologize in life, just say sorry for failing to move to my promises, people who dont know to apologies are always hard to deal and associate with!
I get worried, of those is to join, he might disorganize them !.
Be Blessed.
Awesome comments! by the way, they coincide with many scholars. M. Scott Peck, Fowler, Lawrence Kohlberg, Jonathan Haidt, Maslow, Paul Ekman, Socrates, Aristotle, ,and countless others that are top in their field of study!
I was wondering what you meant though by Jesus and Paul thinking the creation story was real. The Catholic faith has never taught that the world was created in 6 24 hour days, or that it had to happen in the exact order. Neither did the Jews believe such well, nonsense. The story has a much deeper and everlasting truth when taken as a metaphor that literally. (I imagine that I just misunderstood what you meant by “real”.
The evangelicals didn’t come up with the 6/24 fantasy until a couple years after Darwin came out with his Origins of the Species. Out of fear they figured they’d lose members unless they did something drastic!
Loved your comments though!
Look up Mitochondrial Eve and Y-chromosome Adam. Also, the creation story was written at a time when the people believed in many gods. It was written as such to show that there is one creator, and that humans are the pinnacle of creation. It was written to tell the people of the time that the one God created all things and all creatures. The bible is not a science text, but it reveals spiritual truths; that which we need for salvation.
True, the Bible is correct in the fact that the earth was created in six days. Thanks for expressing your ignorance for us to see.
Patrick, there’s a common phrase I love & find to be totally true: book smart & street stupid. The first thing you are missing in discussing religion is FAITH. Second, not everything is written down in the Bible. Third, the powers that be in the RCC get their direction from God, Jesus & the Holy Spirit. God in no way would allow his Holy Word to include anything but His true Word. And it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out that God is so complex, and that complexity is also evident in His Book…things we as humans will never fully understand until He graces us with an invitation to His Heavenly Home. No amount (or lack) of evidence from HUMAN scientists or HUMAN experts will impress me when compared to God & His infinite wisdom, complexity, power or other-worldly intelligence. I suggest a prayer for humility & faith & most certainly forgiveness.
You’re not very smart. lol You don’t even know what faith is.
It’s amazing to me that people offer opinions without first having ascertained the truth of any religion. We have One Lord, One Faith, and One Baptism. If you believe that Jesus Christ Is the Son of the Living God and you adhere to HIS tenants then don’t worry! However if you worship angels, and saints, and Mary you might have a problem…. No man can come unto the Father but by Yeshua haMashiach!!!!!!
I was raised in the Lutheran church which is protestant. Never, in all my years as a student or a parishioner was I ever taught or told that the Catholic religion was an evil cult. We were always taught to love everyone. We were taught to respect others religions too. We were encouraged to live our lives according to the 10 commandments.
Not every church does it> I was a member of a Baptist church when i was a teen. I left that church because they did hate on other faiths regularly. I could not take it and got out of there. Ones faith in God should be respected even if your wrong you should have respect. I just this Easter entered into communion with the Catholic church and i have never been happier.
Same with me. I wasn’t taught to be against Catholic. Makes me wonder who is brainwashing the Catholics to think this. Anything I have learned of being a Catholic is from friends and family and the the mass coverup of pedophile priests. That alone is a serious crime and reason to keep children safe.
Because they are more evangelical than we are. They preach Christ – as the Apostles did. We preach the Church and the Pope, being against abortion – in short, anything other than Christ. When Catholics evangelise at all. How can Christians who have rather poor knowledge of Holy Scripture evangelise ? Without the living witness of Scripture, Evangelisation is talk about some long-dead Jewish guy. Who cares about that ?
James M, I don’t know where you go to Mass, but my church hears about Christ every mass! Every scripture reading is about Christ & every homily is about Christ. When’s the last time you went?
” When I was a kid, I don’t recall ever being encouraged to read the bible” But yet you act like you understand it. Interesting.
“have you ever read the entire bible cover to cover?” Yep…and, unlike you, I understand it. Reading and understanding are two different things. I could read a quantum physics book from cover to cover and still not understand anything about it. Just as you do with the Bible. But yet, in your lack of understanding, you’re still foolish enough to pretend you’re intelligent.
I guess “read” would be an understatement. I’ve studied the Bible with help from the Author. You should try it sometime. Naw…you prefer to be ignorant.
Coming from a man who has no understanding of the Bible, I’ll take the ignorant comment for what it’s worth–nothing. You do know you’re making a fool of yourself, right?
But you did do the smart thing, and make the decision to not argue against the Truth. As Jesus said about people like you “…the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed.”
“I doubt there are many serious Catholic theologians arrogant enough to say they completely understand the bible.” True. They’re more interested in what the Pope says or the “Church” says than what the Bible says. Here’s a typical debate with a Catholic:
Christian: “The Bible says….”
Catholic: “The Pope says….” or “The Church’s teaching says….”
And again, you reiterate your low view of truth. Just because all you have are lies and ignorance and can’t argue against the truth, doesn’t mean I’m mean or arrogant. Duh. That’s like me claiming that a quantum physics scientist is “arrogant” for showing me how little I actually know about the subject. The difference between you and my analogy is that I would never claim to understand quantum physics, much less debate a quantum physics scientist on the subject, but you continue to narcissistic enough to claim to understand the Bible and argue with those who actually do, which you do not.
” If calling me names and slinging scripture makes you feel better about yourself, then you’re welcome” No, pointing out the truth about you and quoting Scripture in addition to it doesn’t make me feel better. It doesn’t make me feel worse. The facts I point out are facts with no emotional baggage attached.
“What „truth“ am I failing to argue against?” The truth.
“You’ve just suggested that you know the bible better than leading theologians – perhaps you could send me a link to some of your theological essays so that I might compare you with better known theologians.”Why do you need to compare it? You don’t even understand it. One does not need to right an “essay” in order to understand the Bible. duh
“I have studied the bible a lot more than quantum mechanics, but I would never be so bold or arrogant as to say I understand either.” Doubt it. And yes, you’re not so bold enough to SAY you understand it. You just make claim by arguing with those who do know more than you and trying to prove them wrong.
“– could you possibly add anything to the discussion besides personal insults?” Well, that’s s misleading question. Like me asking you if you’ve stopped beating your wife. Can’t answer that because I haven’t done it. If you find the truth insulting, well….that’s your problem, not mine. Do you think you’ll ever add anything intelligent to this conversation? You may think so, but you are a fool. Nothing more than a boy dressing up in a man’s suit pretending to be something you’re not.
“Why will Protestants, other people of faith, or non-believers viewing this discussion be incented to become Catholics based on our discussion?” They certainly won’t want to be agnostic, that’s for sure. People like you make me glad I made the right decision. BTW….why would I want them to be Catholics?
“I think you’re an example of what drives people away. Why am I wrong?” Jesus said ” “Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. For I have come to ‘set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law’; and ‘a man’s enemies will be those of his own household.’” I bet you have no idea what He meant,
You know….for one who said “Enough of this tit for tat.. Done with you unless you raise issues having to do with the post” you certainly are doing a lot of tit for tat. Honesty apparently is not your strong suit.
Speaking of which, you asked me for some evidence as to you being a liar. Well, you just gave a fine one. You said “Thanks for acknowledging that you are unable to add anything to the discussion except insults.” What sucks for you is that I did no such thing. I did, however, admit to speaking the truth and you finding it insulting. So, in a twisted, illogical, lack of integrity sort of way, I can see how you would twist that around to mean what you want it to. If it strokes your fragile ego, that’s fine. You need it apparently. It doesn’t matter to me that you find the truth insulting. You didn’t like the truth before I commented on this subject. And your dislike of the truth hasn’t changed me one bit.
“Please tell us what denomination or religion you are from so we can all run from it as quickly as possible.” You already have. I’m a disciple of Jesus. And, despite what you may say, you’ve already done that long before I came around. Oh well. Your loss.
“Jesus’ message about bringing a sword, presents an interesting topic for discussion, and if it comes up in a post on this forum, perhaps I will join in.” Why not now? After all, we haven’t been talking about anything related to this article yet and you seem fine with it.
“but nothing about loving enemies, turning cheeks, treating others as you would be treated, none of that silly Jesus stuff has anything to do with Christianity any longer” Again, you show your ignorance of the Bible and of Christ Himself. Yeah, nothing we’ve discussed has anything to do with loving my enemies or turning a cheek. But I do love you enough to tell you the truth. The problem is that you’re so prideful, you take insult at it. There is a difference between those who are truly searching (not you) and those who merely want to debate in order to prop up a low self-esteem. And thank God someone was loving enough to tell me the truth a long time ago so I didn’t end up in the boat you’re in.
“I shouldn’t have wasted as much time on you as I did, but it was entertaining.” Only you would find it entertaining to be a fool.
“I’m still not sure what “truth” you’re speaking of” That explains it all. You have no desire for the truth. It’s foreign to you.
“You referred to “the author” of the bible, so can I assume that you take the book literally?” Yes and no.
“Come on Catholics, help me out with this guy.” So yeah, you’ve been shot down and now you’re looking for help from people that you slammed on this website? Yeah, you’ve not very intelligent. Lol
“so I didn’t end up in the boat you’re in.” Are you referring to Hell?” Nope. I’m talking about being an uneducated fool.
All of that is very interesting. My whole take on it is: I’d rather die a believer and be wrong, than to die an unbeliever and be wrong.
We dont believe or disbelieve based on evidence. Its about we see as truth.
“And why would He do that?” He didn’t. In reading your multitude of comments, it’s apparent that you like to come across as educated, when you’re nothing but a fool playing pretend
Yes, personal attacks are always good when you can’t answer a question” Yes, and the truth I pointed out is even better when I actually did answer your question. Ignoring both is the sign of a weak mind.
1Ki 15:13 And also Maachah his mother, even her he removed from being queen, because she had made an IDOL in a grove; and Asa destroyed her idol, and burnt it by the brook Kidron.
2Ch 15:16 And also concerning Maachah the mother of Asa the king, he removed her from being queen, because she had made an idol in a grove: and Asa cut down her idol, and stamped it, and burnt it at the brook Kidron.
2Ch 33:7 And he set a carved image, the idol which he had made, in the house of God, of which God had said to David and to Solomon his son, In this house, and in Jerusalem, which I have chosen before all the tribes of Israel, will I put my name for ever:
2Ch 33:15 And he took away the strange gods, and the idol out of the house of the LORD, and all the altars that he had built in the mount of the house of the LORD, and in Jerusalem, and cast them out of the city.
Isa 48:5 I have even from the beginning declared it to thee; before it came to pass I shewed it thee: lest thou shouldest say, Mine idol hath done them, and my graven image, and my molten image, hath commanded them.
Isa 66:3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog’s neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine’s blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.
Jer 22:28 Is this man Coniah a despised broken idol? is he a vessel wherein is no pleasure? wherefore are they cast out, he and his seed, and are cast into a land which they know not?
Zec 11:17 Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.
Ac 7:41 And they made a calf in those days, and offered sacrifice unto the idol, and rejoiced in the works of their own hands.
1Co 8:4 As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one.
1Co 8:7 Howbeit there is not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat it as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled.
1Co 8:10 For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol’s temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols;
1Co 10:19 What say I then? that the idol is any thing, or that which is offered in sacrifice to idols is any thing?
Exodus 20:3-11—Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
8 Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it.
READ !!!! This IS what the Bible says !!! Yet, I see so many bowing to idols, statues of Mary, Peter, and others. No where in the Bible did Jesus ever bow to His mother Mary, nor pray to her. NEVER did HE pray to Peter or any other man. Jesus NEVER prayed with a rosary. the ONLY one He prayed to was His father GOD !!! 1Ti 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
So, since this is what God says. why do people pray to a priest, to confess their sins? A MAN CAN NOT forgive your sins unless you sinned against that person.
Mitchell, where on earth did you get that Catholics bow down to worship Mary? Catholics offer respect to her because she is the Mother of God. And Catholics don’t pray to a priest! In the Bible, Jesus speaks to his apostles about hearing confessions & gives them the power to give absolution. The purpose of confession is for the confessing person…for humility, to vocally acknowledge to themselves their sins because it has a bigger impact within themselves & helps them resist a future temptation to repeat those sins. It also helps the confessor unburden themselves. Then the priest can also offer scripture or advice.
When on the cross Jesus introduced Mary to John as John’s mother, and John as Mary’s son, He is also telling us that we are Mary’s children also & that she can help us in this miserable world we created & be a comfort to us. He was also telling us that we should love & respect her as He did. Mary helps carry our prayers to her Son & adds her prayers to ours so that we will be given as much consideration as is possible. Try really investigating the Catholic faith. It’s a beautiful thing to behold & who knows, you just might become a convert.
One more thing, St. Padre Pio was a Capuchin monk who received the stigmata from Christ Jesus while praying before a crucifix. He was given amazing spiritual and supernatural gifts, among them the power to read hearts. A former friend of mine who was a practicing homosexual went to visit the Padre just before he died in 1968. The Padre read his heart, told him his sins and said he could give up his lifestyle and become a Prince of the Church (a cardinal) or keep it up and end up in Hell. To prove it to him, he told him to go back to NYC and find his son, which this former friend thought was impossible due to his lifestyle.
It turns out he was drunk at a party and fell into bed to sleep. A woman jumped in, conceived and now this son of his is a priest. The friend has not forsaken nor sacrificed his lifestyle.
This Padre Pio also said that if the demons in the world had corporeal bodies THEY WOULD BLOT OUT THE SUN. That is a LOT of demons. And this was before Roe v. Wade.
When abortion became the law of the land, most women fell into the trap of not only abortions, but birth control, causing millions more abortions. Gloria Polo, a Venezuelan dentist, who had had several abortions, was hit by lightning and killed, along with a cousin. Her saintly mother and a particularly pious farmer who heard about it prayed for her soul and St. Michael was sent to grab her as she was plummeting into Hell. He grabbed her ankles and let her hang over the precipice to experience the worms of conscience crawling all over her soul and torturing her. He then took her to Jesus who showed her how every time there is an abortion, something like a seal on the earth is opened and a million demons are released.
Given the widespread contagion of immodesty, murder of the unborn, homosexuality, adultery, shacking up, friends with benefits, STD’s galore, serial divorce and remarriage, bastard children lucky enough to escape the carnage of abortion but void of the influence of true male examples in their lives, and effeminization of them the logical and tragic result, leaving us with military men who are committing suicide by the dozens daily as they return home from the demon infested regions of the Middle East and images showing such “men” with their hands on their heads surrendering to Iranian navy assaults, is it any surprise our society is coming apart at the seams, a self-assured Muslim is leading us in the White House, decimating our society and economy and military leadership?
Calculate it! 1 million demons per each abortion, 57 million abortions, which equals 57 TRILLION demons loose, IN ADDITION TO THOSE WHO PADRE PIO SAID WERE ENOUGH TO BLOT OUT THE SUN IN 1968!
Laugh if you want to, but I’m praying the Rosary, the Litany of the Guardian Angel and the Chaplet of St. Michael and praying to God that my wife will want to go to daily Mass, since she, a cradle Catholic, can’t be bothered to do so.
Is it any wonder Christ said in Luke 18:8, “But yet the Son of man, when he cometh, shall he find, think you, faith on earth?” Has there EVER been a time like now when the faith has been so emaciated, so dissipated, so confused, so diluted into so many confused, convoluted sects?? Or a time when the priesthood has been so withered by the assaults of the evil one via the TV, the radio, the cassette players, the 8-tracks, the reel-to-reels, the CD’s, the DVD’s, the Boom Boxes, the Walkmen, the Ipads, the IPhones, the Apple watches? Entertainment at all costs, and no attention to prayers? Who fasts and prays, as Christ said was necessary to expel the demons in the Bible? What remaining priest actually instructs the faithful to fast and pray, and what woman will fast except to lose a few pounds so she can be more attractive and draw more men into sin by looking at them?
PRAY THE ROSARY!!
How Old is Your Church?
If you are a Lutheran, your religion was founded by Martin Luther, an ex- monk of the Catholic Church, in the year 1517.
If you belong to the Church of England, your religion was founded by King Henry VIII in the year 1534 because the Pope would not grant him a divorce with the right to remarry.
If you are a Presbyterian, your religion was founded by John Knox in Scotland in the year 1560.
If you are a Protestant Episcopalian, your religion was an offshoot of the Church of England founded by Samuel Seabury in the American colonies in the 17th century.
If you are a Congregationalist, your religion was originated by Robert Brown in Holland in 1582.
If you are a Methodist, your religion was launched by John and Charles Wesley in England in 1744.
If you are a Unitarian, Theophilus Lindley founded your church in London in 1774.
If you are a Mormon (Latter Day Saints), Joseph Smith started your religion in Palmyra, N.Y., in 1829.
If you are a Baptist, you owe the tenets of your religion to John Smyth, who launched it in Amsterdam in 1605.
If you are of the Dutch Reformed church, you recognize Michaelis Jones as founder, because he originated your religion in New York in 1628.
If you worship with the Salvation Army, your sect began with William Booth in London in 1865.
If you are a Christian Scientist, you look to 1879 as the year in which your religion was born and to Mrs. Mary Baker Eddy as its founder.
If you belong to one of the religious organizations known as ‘Church of the Nazarene,” “Pentecostal Gospel.” “Holiness Church,” “Pilgrim Holiness Church,” “Jehovah’s Witnesses,” your religion is one of the hundreds of new sects founded by men within the past century.
If you are Catholic, you know that your religion was founded in the year 33 by Jesus Christ the Son of God, and it is still the same Church.
Martin Luther was so successful because he started the whole mess in Germany, where they toilet train their kids waaaaay too early and cause the psychological manifestation of orderliness, stubbornness, and a compulsion for control. Obstinate characteristics were behind WWI and WWII with the Kaiser Wilhelm and Hitler both. Clearly, pride came before the fall, and what a fall it was. The Blessed Mother came to the shepherd children in Fatima and said that WWI was going to end soon, but a worse war would break out in the Pontificate of Pius XI if mankind did not better themselves.
Clearly they didn’t because as the Blessed Mother prophesied, there would be a strange light in the sky just before WWII would break out and, as God demonstrated, the Aurora Borealis extended further toward the equator than ever before, and it was in the Pontificate of Pius XI. Here is a quote of what was going on at the time from fatima.org:
“Furthermore, the “night illumined by an unknown light,” which Our Lady said would signal the coming of the “great war”, occurred during the night of January 25-26, 1938. On that night a bright red light, likened to the blaze of a gigantic fire, filled the evening sky, and was seen across Europe and even in parts of North America and North Africa. It was determined to be a most extraordinary aurora borealis. Sister Lucy expressed reservations on this, but wrote in her third memoir on August 31, 1941 that no matter what cause the light could be attributed to, “God made use of this to make me understand that His justice was about to strike the guilty nations…”
During the same night that the great sign appeared in the sky, in Moscow’s Lubianka prison a man by the name of Kristian Rakovsky was being interrogated by Josef Stalin’s chief interrogator. During the interrogation Rakovsky revealed Germany’s plan to dominate Europe. He proposed that the Soviet Union join Germany in an invasion of Poland, which would lead to Europe’s retaliation against Germany and not the Soviet Union. According to Rakovsky’s plan, France and England would wear each other out, after which the Soviet Union would turn on Germany and collect the spoils of the war. This fateful interview began at the same time the unknown light in the sky was beginning to fade. It resulted in the Soviet Union’s instigation of and participation in the war, and Rakovsky’s plan was carried out to the great benefit of the Soviet Union. Again, this decisive step toward World War II occurred during the reign of Pope Pius XI.”
The entire success of Luther was based on the pride filled hearts of those who wanted to be Pope and Magisterium themselves, and redefine God into their own self image. Sola scriptura and sola fede met both those objectives and masses of people started falling into Hell from being estranged from the Sacraments. At the same time, Spain was sending conquistadors to the New World because God wished to stop the human sacrifices being carried out by the Aztecs against weaker neighboring tribes, and a slave among Cortez’s initial faction had smallpox which infected both the Aztecs and the native tribes and spread like wildfire throughout the New World, killing millions.
The Catholic Church was able then to convert millions more who survived, and when Blessed Juan Diego was on his way to the bishop to have him pray for his sick uncle, the Blessed Virgin appeared to him and asked him to tell the bishop to build a Basilica on that spot in Her honor. Juan Diego said he needed a sign, so She told him to pick some roses (blooming out of season in December) and put them in his tilma (a cactus fibre cloak) and take them to the bishop. He did, and after waiting and persisting against resistance, finally got a hearing with the bishop, told him what the Blessed Virgin said and the Bishop asked for a sign. Juan Diego opened his tilma, the roses fell to the floor and there was an indelible image of the Blessed Virgin imprinted upon his tilma. In the irises of Her eyes, one can see the bishop and his assistants gaping jaws and wide eyes as they see the miracle.
That tilma still exists, has not disintegrated after 600 years and is hanging in the basilica built in Her honor. Truly, as Christopher Columbus named his ships the Santa Maria, the Pinta and the Nina, St. Mary indeed *DID* paint a little girl!
Lots of interesting replies to this post. The fact is “truth” is not a popularity contest. The truth is the same today as it was yesterday and will be tomorrow. Jesus revealed the truth of God and the Church Jesus founded proclaims the truth of the Gospel. Therefore, it cannot change with the times and look to be popular. Like Christ its purpose is to teach truth.
Jesus did not seek to soften his message nor water it down in order to gain followers; rather he spoke and those how listened followed and those who did not were left alone. So too God leaves us alone he does not force himself on us.
The universal church (Catholic) has stood from the time of Christ and will continue till the end whether it has one member or a thousand does not matter.
I think a lot of it has to do with the world around us. i always hear how the church is losing members, how there is a shortage of priest. but ask yourself why. it could be that the church does not reach out to the gay community, nor the divorced. To get an annulment is a crazy and very envasive process not to mention the time it takes. I am also sure the scandals have not helped at all.
Even when none of that is an issue it takes sometimes years to be confirmed. The church is suppose to be a place of forgiveness yet we hold so much against so many. Jesus commanded us to love one another he did not use the words except “group of people”. We need to do more to reach out to these people. I am not saying agree with their lifestyle, nor am I saying that we tell them its ok. But at the vary least we should let them know that the church is a place for all, that even in your sin Jesus loves you.
We all sin and need the grace of God.
It is not about denomination, religion, or institution. Look to the Bible for answers. Look at Romans, Galatians, and John. These are just a few books that point to the truth of the gospel. Jesus Christ is the builder of the true church. The true church is made up of people who have put their faith and trust In Christ alone to save them from their sins and have eternal life. The scriptures tell us that we are all sinners and are in need of a savior. Christ came to redeem us. Salvation is a gift through Jesus Christ. We are saved apart from the law and good works. The law points to how we fail. Grace and Mercy is what we need. When we repent and put our faith in Christ we are born again. This is an event that happens once in our life. This is when we are justified and receive the Holy Spirit. We then begin a life of sanctification with the power of the Holy Spirit which dwells in us. There is repentance for salvation and repentance for daily living as a true believer as we are being sanctified until we go to be with the Lord in heaven. Our denomination does not save us, only Jesus Christ. Gods word settles the argument.
Sounds plausible, Ken, but that’s a particular interpretation of selective Biblical texts which didn’t start emerging until 1500 years after Christ founded His Church. You’ve basically bought into an ideology derived from texts – and, of course, that basis is a recipe for fierce argument over who is interpreting those texts correctly, and the inevitable development of thousands of warring subsects.
In fact, Christ left His Apostles, who in turn ordained their successors, the bishops: the Church which taught and lived and worshipped as He initiated. That is the primary reality that witnesses to the Kingdom and Gospel and passes this Way down the generations until He shall return. Of great importance are the apostolic records of Christ and His Apostles, which the Church wrote, chose and edited under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and added to the comparable records of Israel.
Accurately described like this, it should be plain to you why Christians of this original, apostolic and Catholic faith such as myself will hold to the Church’s traditional interpretation of those Scriptures rather than the innumerable personal opinions about them which compete amongst Protestants who have rejected that unbroken Apostolic testimony.
The Roman Catholic Church been the oldest should have gave the example on how to obey Jesus teaching and never should have made their own rules on how to obtain salvation, all she had to do just continue with Jesus teaching and then there would not have been any objections from anybody else, if the church should have followed Jesus and only Jesus and never mixed Christianity with Paganism there would not have been any objections, also, should have recognized that no one but, Jesus is the savior, not his mother and certainly no any so called saints, Jesus is the one and only person that saved the world from our sins, his blood washed our sins, it was not Mary’s blood, or any Saints that the church wants you to pray to.
Paul’s First Letter to the Corinthians could be addressed to any and all Christian denominations of today. Anyone who dares to lead others to Christ, must first surrender himself to the Holy Spirit and endeavor to follow Christ just as St. Paul did; teaching the Gospel always, and when necessary using words. It is not for me to presume who has been saved and who has not; or to even ask, for only God knows what dwells within each man’s heart. Who am I to judge myself knowing Christ will judge me at the appointed time? When the Lord comes, “he will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will manifest the motives of our hearts, and then everyone will receive praise from God.” Accepting Christ is not the end of the journey, it is just beginning. We are called to be eternally faithful servants, in hope and love.
Paul wrote this letter because he had heard disturbing reports about what was happening in the Church at Corinth and because the church had written a letter to him. These are the specific, chance circumstances that drove him to write this letter. He did not intend this letter alone or together with his other letters and the writings of others to be the comprehensive and sole source of correct doctrine. However, he addresses several specific issues:
1) the certainty of knowledge of others’ or one’s own salvation
2) divisions and factions within the Church at Corinth
3) the questions of the Corinthians regarding marriage, virginity, and food offered to idols
4) liturgical problems and disgraces regarding women’s headcoverings, the Eucharist, and various spiritual gifts like tongues
5) the theology of the Resurrection
Consider this statement from Paul’s opening comments to the Corinthians and how it applies to the Church today. Are we divided? Are there rivalries? Are we united?
I urge you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree in what you say, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and in the same purpose. For it has been reported to me about you, my brothers, by Chloe’s people, that there are rivalries among you.
I mean that each of you is saying, “I belong to* Paul,” or “I belong to Apollos,” or “I belong to Cephas,” or “I belong to Christ.”
Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul?
The point of 1 Corinthians could be laid to all denominations including catholic as “I have heard it said among you that I follow Francis and Catholics, I follow Baptist, I follow Anglican, etc. when we are all one body one baptism, one Christ. As Paul would say who is Francis, who is the head off the Baptist council but men like you and I. The problem comes whenever the messenger is elevated. Paul, Peter and angels refused to be worshiped or venerated because only God is higher. We are lowly sinful humans and from best to worst looks like the high and low places on mars to the God of the universe because we ask start so far away. Only Christ can bridge that gap for the the mass murderer rapist to the pope-spiritually the gap is the same because without Christ we are only fallen too far to get up
Beautifully put. I am going to study those verses today!
Evolution is the biggest farce ever devised by man
40k protestant denominations in the US. Original sin. (discuss among yourselves)
When did the church accept evolution? (In its entirety)?
Patrick, the last time I checked the Theory of Evolution was still just that….”a theory”. It’s thesis still remains “unproven”. Check back with me when you have unearthed the proof.
http://www.catholicbridge.com/catholic/catholic_creationism.php
Many of your statements are not well-founded and based upon a lot of lies that have persisted for many years to sow doubt, confusion and obfuscation among the masses. Such a self-proclaimed “critical thinker” as yourself should really know better, lol.
i see non catholic, coming into a catholic page and start criticise catholic for what it is… for something to be so irritating to some to the point they try their best to deny and run it down, it must be kind of special. if you really believe that you are right, you open your own page and write your own articles to suppprt it. we catholic believe we are true, so we stick with that. The same should be.with you. try to argue your case from your own stand like we do, without bulldozing throgh us and keep saying we are wrong without pointing where you are right. catholic will stick to its doctrins and believe. everything and every celebrations us catholics embrace are the celebration of Christ life, taken from the bible and arranged into liturgical calender… to remind us to try to be like christ. And another reason catholic is not converting many is because of all the ceremonies, protcols, celebrations, RCIA. It took you 1 year of RCIA to be able to be baptist a catholic.. You are made and taught everything about the church, the history, the teaching…everything before you decide either to be baptist or not as a catholic… as for the aiteist, i have no comment, the same about other denomination.. i speak about my catholic believe.. Christ had given us a choice.. to follow Him and be hated by the world or to follow wht the world want and ignore Him… that is why catholic did not sway from its doctrin to be able to comply with the current happenings and demands of the world.
Sometimes I feel pretty lucky. My family wasn’t religious at all, but I gravitated toward something. I got to believe whatever made sense to me. I think early on I got the spirit part, the unconditional love that Christ has for me, is was drew me, original sin – nope no way, God putting any of his creation into a fiery hell for not being able to memorize John 3:16. Threw that out.
Parents, pastors, and other people in leadership roles are making a bunch of dumbies who can only think with their heads, with what is good for ME ME ME. by not letting their people question and come up with the answers themselves with their inner guide, spirit, whatever one wants to call it. Indoctrination makes ugly suptid exclusive doctrine people who enjoy arguing more than they enjoy discussing how a passage inspired them differently today than the last time they read it.
Without our gut, our moral compass, our belief in ourselves we have nothing. When fundies are faced with a difficult complex choice, what do they have to help them figure it out?
I think that the church was all that I had. The nuns were my lessons on unconditional love, where for others they were meanies with rulers.
School was my refuge. Praying 7 times a day! YEAH!
I raised four children with the goal that they would understand all religions and the truth that they shared. No indoctrination. I just wanted really good hearted compassionate, non-judgmental people who would not use words like the N-word a favorite of my family. And that is what I got! Adults that care about the poor, stick up for the marginalized, stand up against that which hurts people. There is nothing more that can make anybody happier than to know that is who you are more than anything.
Do you know Scott Peck, the road less traveled? I imagine you do.
He talks about the four stages of spiritual development, mostly from the perspective of personality problems resulting from bad religion.
Stage 1 is the lawless stage, the viper, the evil pastor in it for the money, the narcissist in it for the power and control. ( or it is also the young child before he understands right from wrong.)
Stage 2 is where the indoctrination people get stuck, and ruined for life. I call it the legalism stage. It is when faith is indoctrinated into you harshly with rules, and no room for growth and questioning. Fundies stay here, and are miserable to themselves, and everybody around them. They are missing a fundamental piece of themselves.
And they cannot ever understand stage 3 or 4, and get violent or angry if anybody tries to explain it to them
Stage 3 is the seeker, the questioner, (maybe you??? the agnostic, the post-Catholic LOL, the atheist even) NO legalism or literalism for these folks. Finding the .questions is the fun part, not the answers.
Stage 4 is the mystic, the one who has gotten past all the crap, and now exists in this connection to others. They are the kingdom of heaven on earth. the Rumi Sufi Islams, the Kabballah Jewish sect, St. Francis, St. John of the Cross St. Teresa of Avila. Buddha, Krishna, They have union – with something? God, the universe, love other folks? does it matter?Do the words matter, or their interpretation? Not when you are here at this stage, even if only for moments here and there under a pine tree, or laying on a fresh snowfall.
Did you ever think that many people are actually gleeful at other folks going to hell!
You said you were a Catholic once, and in another you were never told to read the Bible. ‘Nuf said.
I have read your comments. Whether you’ve read the Bible or not is something only you know. But it’s obvious that you have no understanding of it.
“but indeed there are many who look forward to being vindicated by watching non-believers suffer. Yes, I think there are many such people. I used to be one of them.” And then there are us real Christians who are sad that people like you will not make it to heaven. But we’ve realized that there’s nothing we can do. You make your choice. And even though you like to blame others, the truth remains that it was still your choice.
PL….
“IC, you just can’t let me go, can you?” no more than you can let go. But between us two, you’re the only liar who’s said a number of times that you’re done talking to me.
“I’ll bet you’d be one of those Christians who would dance with glee if you learned that I was going to burn in your imaginary Hell.” You don’t read too well. Well, you are an ignorant fool. Either that, or you did read what I said and just chose to lie about it.
“You call it a choice – just like extortion is a choice” Hmmmm so our justice system is extortion, eh? Don’t murder….or you’ll go to prison for the rest of your life. Nice of you to support such extortion.
“Is that truly “free will?” Duhhh….yes. What a fool. You think free will only applies to positive choices? Yes, you are definitely uneducated.
“I must say that I appreciate the opportunity to respond to your posts in order to provide information that the Church doesn’t want to be general knowledge.” And we can count on people like you to make us look like geniuses. I guess lying and saying stupid things is considered “intelligent” in your family.
So you support YOUR extortion, but other’s not so much? Yeah. You’re not very intelligent.
“You should know that every time you insult me or call me a liar, I get a little grin…” No doubt there. You’ve made it clear you enjoy being a liar and an ignorant fool.
“means I’m winning the debate…” with lies and ignorance? Good luck with that. No wonder intelligent people don’t take you seriously.
“but you can call me a liar all day long, and that reflects on nobody but yourself.” Yeah, it does reflect on you, considering you’ve proven yourself to be a chronic liar. But it does reflect on me as well, as being one to point out the obvious, of which you try to hide from.
“Given that Catholics are better educated, as I demonstrated earlier…” I wouldn’t call a group of people who follow lies and twisted words as “educated” but you apparently have a much lower standard of being educated.
“so tell your Catholic handlers I think you’re doing a good job.” And, again, you follow up with a lie. No surprise there
“If you are representative of fundagelicals, I don’t think you’re going to attract many converts.” Yeah, I suppose I could win more converts by lying to them, but I’ll leave that to you. Wide is the gate and many are who find it, that leads to destruction. Narrow is the gate and few who are who find it, that leads to salvation. I look for people who want to know the truth. That excludes you. The truth is hard to swallow and harder to follow. You’re a prime example.
It is not a numbers have. Our Lord tells us so:
Matthew 7:13,14 “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14″For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.”
I pray the faithful become ready for what will befall Holy Mother Church (CCC 675-677).
All religions are man made and all rely on indoctrinating the young and innocent mind.
Religions by their very nature are devisive.
Examine the question here…why is another religion more successful than the ‘true’ religion. The true religion, really? Who says so? Oh yes, I forgot, all those indoctrinated into Catholcism.
There you are….you have won the argument.
Sadly the truth is that all religion has caused and is still causing pain and grief to humanity. If only we could rid ourselves of the curse of religion, how peaceful it would be.
Many have misused religion for their own ends. Using your logic, would we be better off under atheists like Stalin and the USSR?
Your claim falls flat when examining history or Stalin’s Manifesto. The State was their God. I point here for my claim: The Gulag Archipelago by Solzhenitsyn.
I disagree. The ideology was the driving factor. Your claim falls flat when considering history. Instead of a Bible, it was A Manifesto. Read The Gulag Archipelago by Solzhenitsyn
Yeah he did. Sorry
True, Stalin targeted religious groups because he (and Communism as a rule) are atheists and have their heart set on silencing religion and anything resembling God or a god.
It is not a numbers game. Our Lord explains:
Matthew 7:13,14 “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14″For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.”
I pray the faithful become ready for what will befall Holy Mother Church (CCC 675-677).
I hear this argument so many times. And each time I am sad. Sad because I know that the one giving the argument obviously does not have a satisfactory and personal relationship with the Holy Spirit, God or Jesus (if christian). It seems to always come from a place of pain.
Wars and bigotry and hatred are not started because of religion, but in spite of it. People like people and control, and twisting religion to look like their own ego is the easiest way to gain power and control.
A concerted effort to live out your faith would never result in a twisted faith, but it sure would withstand whatever the twisted people dish out in the name of their twisted faith.
Jesus, and many other great spiritual leaders were killed by the “exclusive doctrine people.” They more rigid and sure you become, the less room you have left for your faith to transform you into well, what Jesus called the Kingdom of Heaven on earth.
what kind of battle if i would ask? the catholic church is not competing or battling with with anyone for sumpremacy or recognition. those protestants are trying to make a story out of nothing, becauce the catholic church has ever existed since with its rich doctrines that the attackers do no have and no man can not change that because the church is build onthe the holy trinity . Continuing believing in your faith and give the catholics a break. we wont go to heave with our denominations but according to our deeds.
My Jesus, I thank You for leaving me Your church, One Apostolic Catholic Church. I see so many sects which claim to have Your blessing and support. Yet, they contradict one another in many doctrines. You have granted me the favor of knowing Your one, true, apostolic church. she still stands today, after centuries of opposition and persecution. The many attempts of satan to destroy Her have failed, as You promised they would. Empires have risen and fallen, but Your church goes on telling the world Your holy teachings and commandments. You still speak through Her, offering truth and wisdom to all men. Let me always follow Her guidance in all matters of faith and morals.
Less well educated?? Not sure what you are talking about. Evangelicals are much more literate in the Bible and that is their ultimate authority rather than “traditions” established by men. I happen to have 2 graduate degrees. My brother is an evangelical/protestant minister and he has a doctorate.
You speak with great eloquence and no understanding. Sad
its not about of using the truth, its about telling the real truth. And the people will recognize who is laying.
what kind of battle if i would ask? the catholic church is not competing or battling with with anyone for sumpremacy or recognition. those protestants are trying to make a story out of nothing, becauce the catholic church has ever existed since with its rich doctrines that the attackers do no have and no man can not change that because the church is build onthe the holy trinity . Continuing believing in your faith and give the catholics a break. we wont go to heave with our denominations but according to our deeds.
Oh my…y are we fighting with esch other..catholic n protestant…just look at church history…protestant comes when martin luther, then a priest was dissatisfied and broke away from the church. u see, protestant comes way after the roman catholic church. Well nevertheless, we all believe in God and his son Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit.
Our common goal is Jesus Christ! Why r we christians so divided and disunited when we all have one common goal.
Do you think we are making God happy and pleasing to Him? Di you think that iur denomination guarantee us a life eternity in heaven.? Our faith does! So stop comparing and badmouthing…it is a sin.
Actually, Lilyan, Catholicism came way after Christianity, and hijacked it. All the reformation was, was God separating and removing true Christians from the apostate “Church”
Each and every denomination claims that theirs is the real truth. Quibbling about such things is against at least a dozen verses, including Tim 2:14 Warn them before God against quarreling about words; it is of no value, and only ruins those who listen.
These little things that Protestants use to divide everybody into little fighting groups does less to draw others to Christ and more to draw people away from religion as a whole.
We are all part of the Body of Christ. But many denominations cut off a foot, an arm.
It is stupid to think that God is such a little nit picking, juvenile human being. He is more than we could ever imagine. Why make him so small, and ridiculous in man’s image?
Bravo, Cindy! As a former Evangelical Protestant who joined the Church much the same way you did (my wife is a cradle Catholic), I’ve experienced a lot of anti-Catholic rhetoric in my past. Heck, there was a time when I believed it.
But I have found my Catholic church to be more warm and genuine in their faith than many of the Protestant churches I belonged to. And I too have not heard my Catholic friends bashing and badmouthing other denominations, the way I heard many Protestants do to the catholics.
Your comment about the splintering of the Protestant churches is dead on. When I was growing up I had a few records (dating myself there) by a Christian comedian named Mike Warnke. He said something on one of those albums that really stuck with me:
“Isn’t it weird that the mighty Army of the children of God, armed with the Spirit, clothed in righteousness, shielded with faith, girded with truth, shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace, spend the vast majority of their time either shining their armor or fighting one another.”
If Satan can keep us busy fighting amongst ourselves, our effectiveness and ability to spread the Gospel is diminished in ways we cannot possibly imagine.
I cannot find the exact quote by Mike Warnke. It is on his original testimony tape when he is describing his childhood. His story was that he was part of a Roman Catholic home, and then went to a Fundamentalist Protestant home that was extreme anti-Roman Catholic. I cannot find the exact quote, he swears, and his new foster mom says something like, If you don’t accept Jesus Christ right now as your personal Lord and Savior a bold of lightening is going to come down and nothing of you will be left except a glob on the ground with you eyeballs sticking out. Something like that his new home believed that if you were Roman Catholic and you died there was a chute that would appear and you would be sent straight to hell, do not pass go.
Mike Warnke was proven to be a liar and a fraud, but that tape was as funny as any Bill Cosby story jokes that I ever heard.
I was raised in a protestant church, the entire time I was taught that the Catholic church was a evil cult. I never could understand why these churches were so busy running a church into the ground. I married a Catholic who was faithful to his religion, I converted have never in 25 years heard anyone in my church run another church down. Even when I spoke to father about my children attending another church, he said they believe in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Sprit they are saved. Don’t worry they always find their way back.
Merle, show me in the Bible where just believing gets you saved. You must believe that Jesus died, rose again and sets at the right hand of the father. Then Jesus said to also repent and flee from your sins. Your priest needs to tell you the whole story.
That’s what we believe. Please read from a reliable source what Catholic Christians actually believe.
1. Is it true that that is the case ? I have no idea.
2. If that is indeed the case, perhaps one reason is, that Catholicism is perceived, rightly or wrongly, as preaching the Church and its internal politics, rather than Christ. Preaching an institution is much less attractive than preaching a Divine Person.
I am so happy to read your message! I grew up and was educated in Catholic schools in a major city that pretty much only had Catholics when I was growing up. I didn’t meet a Protestant, or a Muslim until college. One thing that shocked me to my core was that Catholics do NOT run around putting other churches down, or other people, or judging all kinds of stuff, or gossiping!
It wasn’t until I got to college that I met my first “born again.” who within minutes demeaned and belittled my faith, before she even got to know me! I had no idea until that moment that most if not many protestants have this HATRED for Catholicism.
The cool thing is that Catholics live their life, their faith, their service is mostly quiet, not bragging about, or being loudmouthed, telling everybody they are going to hell. I’m certain it turns more faces toward Christ, when you love first, service next, and leaving the conviction up to the Holy Spirit and the judging up to God.
I am so happy to have been brought up in such a sacred place where the spirit is clearly present. We don’t have to use words to tell people what faith we belong to.
Hey Cindy,
First off, I love you. If I didn’t love you, I wouldn’t bother replying.
Second, history tells us that Romans killed Jesus, and persecuted the church for centuries. Who do you think killed off the apostles?
Third, Roman Catholicism was introduced hundreds of years after Christ. The Roman leadership based a universal religion off of Christianity, mixed with pagan festivals and traditions, and said that everyone under their authority was to be a Catholic from then on.
Only people who were already Christians were opposed this idea because the pagans still had their rituals and didn’t know Jesus. These were not subject to scripture, nor did they have a genuine conversion through faith. Thus began the priest and laymen church relationship that is no where present in the book of Acts.
In John 3:5 Jesus said “…Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God…” No amount of religious practice does that, but the blood of Jesus cleanses us, and His Spirit births us into his holiness nature (1 John 3:9).
Besides that, people can join the organizations but no one can just join the true church (or body of Christ).
Then Rome introduced a papacy at that time (which had no scriptural dexterity) to control this religion and its new members.
Finally, there are a list of non-biblical traditions that are practiced by Catholicism, some of which directly oppose Bible scripture , which is the word of God for us (II Tim. 3:16-17). You can check the CARM.org resource for more info.
You should know, that even the basis of salvation differs from Catholic to myself. Eph. 2:8-9 says by grace through faith in God, that many catholic believers are unaware of and remain untaught.
Purgatory (which is not in the Bible at all) is taught and indoctrinated into the youth, to offer a false security of salvation through works.
We share the truth in love. God’s church has Jesus, and He is the light of the world . We are to let our light shine so that men see our good works, and glorify the Father (Matt 5:16, 2 Cor 4:6). A big part of the is the gospel message (Mark 16:15-18).
Dearest Bernard, you have been so mislead, so misinformed in everything you have sighted here.
Truth now, how much formal education in Theology do you have?
From every statement and accusation you have made here, tells me very little. What you do have is a handed down understanding of what others have convinced you of.
My suggestion to you, is to listen to PHDs of Theology and Church Fathers and history.
Stop listening to those who are so full of pride and ego and hate.
Dr. Scott Hahn, Dr. Brant Pitre are two good places to start.
Stop trying to bring Jesus down with His Church!
Thank you, Lorry, your comment is accurate and concise.
Lorry, nothing as prideful and arrogant and Catholics. They refuse to listen to the truth
BTW…everything that Bernard posted was 100% truth. Don’t let your pride keep you blinded
i can see clearly who are the prideful and arrogant one…..i once before stumble upon a book, an illustration guided book that meant for children that was written by non-catholic group/organisation, i didnt read the whole book, but one of page that shocked me, is that they wrote and stressing out that we should not following an old church because it is an old and evil church…they didnt mentioned what church it is, but they drew a catholic bishop…… i live in a diversity races and religion society, and the bragging one here in my country is muslim…they are the one that always oppressing us christian and non muslim….but what disappointed me is that, the non-catholic are pretty much has the same attitude toward catholic…espc. the evangelical………..
……..and u know what, we the catholic are the coolest one……we didnt overreact……
Purgatory is definitely alluded to in the Old Testament. It says after a battle that: “It is a good and wholesome thought to pray for the dead.” If souls went to heaven, they didn’t need prayers, if they were damned, they couldn’t use prayers.
Bernard; Cindy makes sense, you on the other hand ramble on incoherently.
FIRST of all, you don’t love Catholics, that’s the fact. You hat Catholic Church and you destroy the faith of every baptized Catholics. SECOND, the Romans killed the Lord Jesus Christ REQUESTED by the Jews. The Romans sees nothing evil done by the Lord Jesus Christ. But the Jews “…SHOUTED LOUDER, CRUCIFY HIM!” – Matthew 27:22. If we continue, Pilate asks the Jews “…. “What evil has he done?” But they shouted louder, “Crucify him!”” – Matthew 27:23. Pilate (Roman Governor) find no case against him as we can read “On seeing him the chief priests and the guards cried out, “Crucify him! Crucify him!” Pilate replied, “Take him yourselves and have him crucified, for I find no case against him.”” – John 19:6. Clearly the Romans killed the Lord Jesus Christ BUT by request of the Jews. It was the Jews killed the Lord Jesus Christ because Pilate want the Lord Jesus Christ free Him but the Jews want the Lord to be CRUCIFIED.
THIRD, the Catholic Church was started in Jerusalem but the JEWS rejected it so St. Paul brought the Catholic Church from Jerusalem to Rome requested by the Lord. “That night the Lord stood by Paul and said, “Courage! As you have borne witness to me here in Jerusalem, so must you do in Rome.”” – Acts 23:11.
The festivals is part of the Jews tradition that apply by the Church and even modify it. And the word tradition means is what you accept as it is then you pass it into the next generation. Like Bible, Bible itself is tradition. All teachings of the Catholic Church was deposit by our Lord Jesus Christ because the Lord Jesus Christ is the founder of the Catholic Church even historians can prove it.
While protestants are confused because you read the Bible literally.
peace be with you!
i have read your message???
i think all christians believe in ” trinity!” which is not written in the bible. If you believe this is an idea to describe three in one,you can believe what the catholics teach.
This is the idea missing in all christian and they are critising the catholics add to thier teaching.
Dear,if you find the word trinity in bible,let me know.
Birhane. Wrong. But good attempt to justify an apostate “church” that teaches false doctrines. Nowhere in the Bible does it infer that priests are to forgive sins. Nowhere in the Bible does it infer purgatory. Nowhere in the Bible does it say to pray to dead people (it does, however, condemn it). Nowhere in the Bible does t say to worship idols (but it does condemn it). Nowhere in the Bible does it say to deify humans (but it does condemn it). And a number of other teachings that can’t be found anywhere in the Bible (immaculate conception, for example). Thank God for the Reformation which delivered the Church from the grips of the man-made, false Catholic cult.
Not to mention that the office of Pope is anti-biblical and never mentioned in the Bible. It’s a man-made office. But, considering that the RCC wasn’t created until the 4th century, we understand.
That priest needs to scolded by his bishop. Im sure he was trying to console you, but very badly done. I cant believe he didnt even tell you to prsy rossries for them to come back, or that he would also do yhe same. Very shameful.
I’ll be praying for your salvation.
I dont believe for a second you’ll be praying for anyones salvation, but you should pray for your own. You have shown yourself to be a very hateful individual. There is no love of Christ in you anywhere. Unfortunate.
I’m sorry you find the truth hateful. Even the pharisees thought Jesus was hateful for destroying their false doctrines. I’ll continue to pray for your salvation
I will tell you yyy there go to this church there ar telling people call no one farther and there ar calling the Catholic Church all the time brain washing them we tell them the truth and it hurts a lot of people and we ar not so easy going as there ar we stick to the truth I have been to these churches and listen to them I don’t like the way there work
When was the last time local bishop pointed out let alone promoted faith teachings on Birth control etc..
The movie Spotlight is a good start. The persecution of anyone not being Catholic. Makes Catholics appear that they are evil.
Sonia, That was the longest, most nonsensical sentence I’ve read online.
Teriqua Jones: Nothing she writes makes sense.
What are you trying to say?
you nailed it Sonia, I agree with you 100%
Catholic Church is the only church and the only church that can true itself all the way to Christ. So if Christ is God and he promised the church that the gates of hell won’t prevail then who are you to say God is a liar? Seriously. Great accusation here. Maybe you should check out what the real Church that was instituted by Christ teaches before you yap out the stupid lame accusations. That just shows how well you are Not reading the Catholic book called the Bible! Sheesh.
The RCC got its start in the fourth century by the Roman government as a political/religious organization to control the masses. It has no ties to true Christiamity or Christ Himself.
The catholic church didnt read revelations where it says not to add or take away from,the scripture. Right call no one father. No such thing as purgatory etc read scripture. You have to see the issues yourself
Since the Bible didn’t exist when John wrote Revelations, he was only referring to his book when he wrote no one can add to it. It was included with the other books that make up the bible.
Actually, it’s also in the OT. Proverbs 30:6 “Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.” If you think it’s okay to add to God’s Word, feel free. You’ll be judged as a liar.
Jesus never leave us a book or Bible it was the Catholic Church who wrote the Bible , So Bible belong to Catholic and only Catholic Church who know how to used it. The Bible it was our magistarium. I think for us Catholic we should the only Church supposed to used bible .Other should used something else..pay some respect..
Please read:
Mt 5:48
Heb 12:14
Jam 3:2
Rev 21:27
1 Jn 5:16-17
Jam 1:14-15
2 Sam 12:13-14
Mt 12:32, 12:36
2 Macc 12:44-46
1 Cor 3:15
1 Pet 3:18-20
2 Tim 1:16-18
1 Cor 15:29-30
Through out scripture it telks us about Pugatory its up to us to listen. Its the difference between the truth which sometimes is not candy and unicorns and a watered down fluffy faith. Its hard work and to be diligently searching may suprise you on that you find. May God bless you and guide you, if you really want to know.
Awe so since it says in the bible there is no God you take it at face value. If you read the Bible can you tell me how many times Jesus uses paribles to teach its not to take the word literal.
Uh, yeah. So, Lisa, do you celebrate Easter and Christmas? If so, can you point out in Scripture exactly where it says something about celebrating of those who Holy Days? Waiting. My point is simple – it doesn’t have to be in Scripture to be a valid belief. The Holy Trinity cannot be found in Scripture. Do you not believe the Holy Trinity?
Actually protestants took books out of the bible. Call no man father what do u call your Dad or what does your kids call you ? Jesus never made a distinction between earthly father’s or spiritual fathers. Think also about father Abraham ??? Purgatory is in the bible 1 Corinthians 3.15…..If anyone’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire…..
I hate to tell you this, Colin….but 1 Cor 3:15 is not about purgatory. Sorry
Calling a Priest a Father was a sign of respect. You don’t know respect that’s why you cite that. I guess. Another when you go outside whatever you receive you don’t even respect those who work for it thinking God has done that. That’s stupid. Better check the negative interpretation and make it to positive one because it causes blindness and stupidity.
Evangelicals are flourishing because they are led by men of God; Catholics are led by men – if they are men – of bureaucracy, who couldn’t evangelise their way out of a paper bag if their lives depended on it. But, boy, can they woffle ! (Some people would use a much less polite term.)
evangelicals are successful becuase they use lies about the catholic church to lure people away from Christ church leads them to hereries of invented protestant doctrines.
ROFL. Yeah, why are you defending an apostate church that teaches false doctrines….and then accuses Christians of lying. Oh yeah….because we know that the father of lies is your father.
Here’s a bit of truth for ya….Catholicism is a man-made organization created centuries after Jesus walked the earth, as a political/religious organization to control the masses, especially the ignorant ones. Hence why their original Bibles were written in Latin, a language only known among well educated people, so that the peasants wouldn’t know all the lies they were spreading. Catholicism has not connection with Jesus, or the True Church, but is built upon lies and false, anti-biblical doctrines. They promote necromancy, idolatry, and deifying humans.
I see our resident fool is back flaunting your lack of education. In case you didn’t know, you’ve already made it clear to everyone that you don’t understand the simplest things of theology and the Bible. No need to keep trying to prove it. And with all your ignorance, you still haven’t changed the truth that Catholicism is a man-made organization created centuries after Jesus walked the earth, as a political/religious organization to control the masses, especially the ignorant ones. Hence why their original Bibles were written in Latin, a language only known among well educated people, so that the peasants wouldn’t know all the lies they were spreading. Catholicism has not connection with Jesus, or the True Church, but is built upon lies and false, anti-biblical doctrines. They promote necromancy, idolatry, and deifying humans.
Oh….so you continue to flaunt your ignorance because you’re too ignorant to know better. I can understand that. You have nothing that could be considered intelligent enough to “challenge.” You have just ignorant blatherings of a fool. You’ve shown time after time on this article that you have no understanding of God’s Word. You’re just an argumentative jester with no credibility. Arguing such things with you is worse than arguing quantum physics with a 5 year old. You’ll just keep posting stupid things, and, in your psychosis, smiling at yourself because you think you’re smarter than you actually are.
Besides, Gannon, despite your “assertions” you still haven’t changed the truth that Catholicism is a man-made organization created centuries after Jesus walked the earth, as a political/religious organization to control the masses, especially the ignorant ones. Hence why their original Bibles were written in Latin, a language only known among well educated people, so that the peasants wouldn’t know all the lies they were spreading. Catholicism has not connection with Jesus, or the True Church, but is built upon lies and false, anti-biblical doctrines. They promote necromancy, idolatry, and deifying humans.
“I didn’t dispute any of that, did I?” Of course you didn’t. It’s the only smart thing you’ve done. But then you follow it up with more stupid.
“I just pointed out that evangelicals are a branch that came from Catholicism…”No, we’re not. You keep trying to prove your ignorant, but we already know. We are a branch of Jesus, delivered from the apostate RCC.
“although I do it in a far more educated and professional way than you do.” Carry on with your psychosis. The only one taking you seriously is you. But….you are a fool, so I can see why.
“I may be wrong, but I think most Catholics are better educated than most evangelicals, and confronting intelligent people with logical, reasonable ideas….” Yes, you are wrong
Speaking of having dignity, it’s apparent you have none. You certainly have no qualms in being an ignorant fool and boasting about it.
“Hmm. I think I figured you out.” I’m up in the air about that comment. One side says that you’re promoting false advertising by claiming you think. But the other side says “Well, at least he’s smart enough to say he doesn’t know”….which you don’t
As for the rest of that comment, I see you’ve gotten so desperate to use the ol’ “You’re actually helping out the ones you’re arguing against” tactic that 5 year old’s use. How many times have I heard pathetic people use that when they continuously get shot down
But that brings me back to the question: are you atheist/agnostic because you’re an ignorant fool? Or are you an ignorant fool because you’re an atheist/agnostic?
“Thank you so much for confirming that I was correct! Goodbye IC.” Hahaha…so you have to resort to lying to boost your pathetic ego. And now you are going off to lick your wounds. Typical. Besides, how seriously can I take a fool who has already said “Enough of this tit for tat.. Done with you unless you raise issues having to do with the post” and yet keeps talking to me. Do you ever post anything remotely intelligent or honest?
“I’m here to debate self-identified Catholics” No, you’re not, liar.
“Raise a legitimate issue, and I’ll debate you.” I have, and you’ve failed each time.
“Note that one must be “part of” something before they can be “delivered from” it.” Wrong. You really should finish middle school at least, before you pretend something. Being captive of a group doesn’t make them part of it. Sorry.
I see you, once again, have tried to counter facts, and have failed miserably.
“As I pointed out, evangelism (Protestantism) branched from Catholicism” That’s like saying the Jewish race branched from the Egyptians because they were slaves of the Egyptians once. Rofl. You are a fool. I get a kick out you pretending to be smart.
“I already responded with some evidence indicating Catholics are generally better educated.” How “educated” is one who says they’re a Christian, but practices un-christian doctrines? The only person more ignorant than that is an antheis/agnostic.
So…I’m a Catholic stood pretending to be an evangelical? Hahahahaha. So you’re saying that because I argue against Catholics that I’m a Catholic? Ok, lil boy. That must mean you’re a Christian.
“OK I’ll keep playing” Of course you will. You’re a liar and no matter how many times you say you’re done talking to me, you keep coming back.
“How is it that evangelicals were “captives” of the RCC? In what sense?” And hence why I say you’re an ignorant fool.
“Hmm. I have trouble with that” Of course you have trouble with facts and truth. Duh
“I don’t think your analogy works.” Well, it does to intelligent people. But you’re just a little boy whining for attention.
“Education: the process of receiving or giving systematic instruction, especially at a school or university.” My point stands on its own merits.” Yeah…zero merits. “For the wisdom of this world is foolishness in God’s sight.” As I said…How “educated” is one who says they’re a Christian, but practices un-christian doctrines?
“I still think there’s a good chance that you really are playing a role here,” Well, you never were very smart. I found that out from the beginning. So now you’re going to act like a 5 year old and make up stuff and try to soothe your bruised ego. In all my conversations with people like you, that’s what you do when you get shot down and you’re embarrassed and you want to save face.
“I’m in sales and learned long ago that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar” No you don’t. Your conversation on here shows otherwise. I would suspect that you base your sales on deceit and lies. I certainly wouldn’t buy anything from you.
ML, If you find the truth an “attack,” you merely solidify your low opinion of the truth.
“I adjusted my stance” I like how you justify lying as “adjusting my stance” rofl. So if someone says they’re going to do something for you and then don’t, they’re just “adjusting their stance” You certainly are quite the liar. Hence why I would never buy anything from you. You’re the perfect epitome of a used-car salesman.
“So I’m ignorant. OK. I’m not too proud to admit that.” I never said you were too proud to admit it. If I remember correctly, a couple times I stated that you are rather boastful in being ignorant. That means that you don’t want to know. So when you say “Help me understand what you mean in saying evangelicals were captives of the RCC.” I know that you’re just lying. You don’t want to know. You want post stupid stuff.
“I’m not going to debate further on “education.” I provided a dictionary definition you didn’t object to, and I presented evidence to support my assertion, which you have not countered” And I merely provided the truth, which you didn’t object to, and presented evidence to support the truth which you haven’t countered. All you have is assertions. And you’ll continue to lose.
“You haven’t convinced me that you aren’t playing a role, or really even tried to.” I see you’re still hanging on to that sophomoric defense. It’s interesting watching how desperate people like you become when you’re owned. Yeah, I not intentions of playing your fool’s game. If you want to accuse me of something just because you don’t like being shot down, no worries to me. I know the truth.
“I didn’t originate the old adage or proverb that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar,” I didn’t say you did
“but you say it’s not true” No I didn’t. But, then again, you are a liar, so why would I expect truth from you. As your conversation makes clear, you apparently don’t even adhere to that adage.
You find the truth hostile. I feel sorry for you.
“I’m in sales and learned long ago that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar” No you don’t.” I guess I should have said “You didn’t” because you apparently didn’t learn that. Either that, or you just don’t give a darn about using honey. The more I listen to you, the more I doubt you’re in sales.
“I’d have to go back and read all your comments, but I don’t recall you providing evidence for anything you said” Well, that’s because you lie and you don’t want to see it.
“You’ve lost this debate” I hope your fragile, immature ego feels better now that you lied. What sucks is that you’re the only one believing your lies. Well, I’m sure you’ll go find all your pathetic friends and tell them all the stupid stuff you posted and lie about what I posted and get them give you a high five. But what kind of friendship is built on lies?
“Good bye till we have something useful to debate” Lie. You’ve said that before.
So far all you’ve proven is that you have nothing but lies and ignorance to post. Think you’ll ever be honest and intelligent?
“Good bye till we have something useful to debate” Well….I see you “adjusted your stance” again….lol aka….lied.
Ohhh….so you’ve found something “useful to debate” like the fact that I never said the quote you posted was wrong. I just said you didn’t believe/practice it. Yeah. You got shot down again.
“Next time, perhaps you could think about what you’re going to say,” yeah, because we all know you don’t think about what you say.
So you’ve proven once again that you’re a liar and ignorant. So I’m not concerned with your assessment of…well…pretty much anything. I don’t take pathological liars like you seriously.
“Once again you failed to explain what you mean about evangelicals having been held captive by the RCC” No I didn’t. Liar
“You just keep on hacking away at those roots because evangelicals WERE a part of the RCC” yeah, no one’s willingly part of something they don’t believe in. Liar.
“as there was no other alternative,” Actually there was. Ignorant fool.
Please don’t just say things that you don’t fully understand. When you tell something, be sure it’s 100% truth, no more, no less. Read history of how the Holy Bible, written by people who err, yet inspired by the Holy Spirit, was brought to the world of readers, both learned and unlearned, believers and unbelievers alike. And for sure, if you read in histoty, many of your beliefs would surely be changed…As what they say, little knowledge is dangerous…and lies, if being repeated many times to those who read or listen to them, they become truth…
What we need to do is to pray and study both sides of the coin so that biases can never be injected in the words we are to tell…
Isaiah’s Cry ….. just a note…. Latin was the language of the masses. The Latin Vulgate…. the translation by Jerome, was used to inform as many as possible. Bibles were chained in Churches (like phone books used to be chained in phone booths) to make sure as many as possible would have access.
Not one faith community can trace their “beliefs” back to the Apostles…..except the Catholic Church, first called such by Ignatius around the time of the death of the beloved disciple, John
As for the “Roman”…. hahaha ….. the center of the universal (Catholic) Church was where Peter and Paul were…. in ROME.
If that was true it wouldn’t have lasted over 2000 years. Nice try though.
If you cant have an inteligent comment and show you are a Christian go to a bash other religion sight we dont want hate posts