“We will conquer your Rome, break your crosses, and enslave your women,” ISIS proclaimed in its declaration of war against the Catholic Church in 2014. Why does ISIS hate the Catholic Church so much? Why does it target priests and threaten Rome by name?
Christ Himself warned His Church and His followers would be persecuted. The Book of Revelations holds dire predictions for believers. History is filled with examples of Christian persecution, from the apostles themselves to the present day.
This is a sign that the Church is the right path, so while persecution is painful, it is also an affirmation that we are on the path marked by Christ.
The Church faces persecution from many sources; the devil has many faces. Governments, militant atheists, satanists, and militant Muslims target the Catholic Church. It is as if they all know the Catholic Church is the great bride of Christ. If you wish to strike against God, the best target is His Church, and that Church is the One, True, Holy, and Apostolic Catholic Church.
The Islamic State has a particular bloodlust for Catholics. Part of the reason, as outlined above, is that Satan surely has a special hatred of the Catholic Church, and ISIS is but one of his faces. However, history cannot be ignored.
More than nine centuries ago, the First Crusade was launched. The crusade was called by Pope Urban II, who was alarmed that Muslims were persecuting Christians on their pilgrimages to the Holy Land. The crusade provided an outlet for the surplus of unlanded nobility wandering the fields of medieval Europe. The crusade to protect pilgrims quickly became political and provided an opportunity to many nobles to make names for themselves and seize land.
The First Crusade was a Christian victory as the armies seized Jerusalem. However, it also reignited a conflict against the Islamic world that had continued off and on since the Islamic invasion of Europe two centuries before.
For the next hundred years, Islamic armies chipped away at the crusaders and the generations of soldiers who followed. Islam eventually regained the territory it lost to the Christian armies. Yet Islam stalled in southeastern Europe and was halted by the distinctly Catholic armies of the defending emperors and kings of Europe.
A lasting peace was established with only occasional, short-lived conflicts -relative to the crusades. This peace lasted until the establishment of the state of Israel after World War II. Since then, the Islamic world has been at war with the West.
The Islamic State sees itself as the continuation of the ancient Islamic Caliphate, which held a mandate to make the world Islamic. The greatest traditional gatekeeper of Christianity is the Catholic Church. So, the Islamic State has cast itself in the traditional Islamic role of jihadist, and the Catholic Church in the classic role as adversary.
The very manifesto of ISIS states:
“The Muslims will be at war with the Roman Christians. Rome in the Arabic tongue of the Prophet (sallallāhu ‘alayhi wa sallam) refers to the Christians of Europe and their colonies in Shām prior to the conquering of Shām at the hands of the Sahābah. There will be a pause in this war due to a truce or treaty. . Then the Romans will commit treachery by raising the cross and killing a Muslim. This will lead to the continuation of the war between the Muslims and the Romans. They will demand access to those who enslaved some of them or the former captives themselves who accept- ed Islam so as to fight them. This enslavement will have taken place either before the signing of the truce or after the treachery, and Allah knows best. These events all lead up to the final, greatest, and bloodiest battle – al-Malhamah al- Kubrā – between the Muslims and the Romans prior to the appearance of the Dajjāl and the descent of al-Masīh. This battle ends the era of the Roman Christians, as the Muslims will then advance upon Constantinople and thereafter Rome, to conquer the two cities and raise the flag of the Khilāfah over them.”
The fact the Church today preaches peace, tolerance, and commands no armies makes little difference to the Islamic State. They see the Church as a symbol for everything they hate. A paragon of resistance to their reign terror.
The Devil has many faces, and this is the face of ISIS. They target the Catholic Church because the Church is the single pure, Holy and Apostolic institution established by Christ at the end of His earthly ministry. But the terrorists of the Islamic State do not know what the Devil knows. “The gates of Hell will not prevail against it,” (Matthew 16:18). The Church is assured of victory because she is protected by the promises of Christ.
Many, many people have attempted to destroy the Church. Armies have marched against her, emperors and kings have declared war on her. Her own priests and bishops have sometimes done much to damage her reputation. Yet even after all this, the Church still stands, proud and tall, a mighty rock against the evil of Satan. The Church has no shortage of volunteers to perform its work, giving charitably, healing courageously, and teaching selflessly.
The terrorists of the Islamic State may harm the clergy and members of the Church, but they cannot destroy the Church. We remain steadfast in our faith, no matter what face the Devil wears.
By Marshall Connolly
War is an interest of very few individuals, worriers actually pay the prize of what they really dont understand and at no point they realize the benefit of the same war their are in.
God is with us, and we will follow the one and only church, god bless everyone and bring peace among Men.
Hi Patrick, you certainly have some well thought out arguments to justify your form of atheism. First of all, the reality of death as an apparent contradiction to the beauty and goodness we experience during life is something no scientist can explain. If death is the final end to a human being’s consciousness then all the choices and experiences of life have no ultimate purpose since a person ceases to know and exist. If you don’t agree with this then it’s useless to continue this conversation because you are not using reason. Since life does have goodness and beauty and love then there must be an ultimate, transcendent source for this who will give us an eternal life of happiness that can never get boring since God is infinite goodness and love. The resurrection of Jesus Christ, which is historical because 500 people saw him at one time after he was crucified, demonstrates that we will not be raised as zombies but be glorified like Christ with the ability to go anywhere in the universe at the speed of thought. This is in no way existing as a zombie with a boring life on a cloud. What will truly be amazing is seeing God who is infinite beauty and knowing absolute love forever. Hell exists because Satan has made it for himself, the other fallen angels and all foolish humans who choose death rather than the God of life. God gives free will because he cannot force us to love and he is also just. If there is no God, then there is no final justice. Hitler and Mother Teresa are equal and both receive the exact same thing for all their actions—–death and a rotten corpse. Thanks be to God our Creator who is perfect love and justice, Hitler receives what he earned and so does Saint Teresa of Calcutta. For you to claim that God does love love us is absolute absurdity. God would never allow rebellious, wicked people to dwell with His children who love their Father with gratitude. Choose who you will serve…the Living God or the god of death who is Lucifer, the unrepentant spirit of darkness. Your choice will have ultimate and eternal consequences.
Is the entire Genesis account of our origins literal or metaphorical? The Catholic Church believes much of it is a metaphor. The god you bow down to is your own false idea of reality. God is holy, perfect love and perfect justice, therefore when you blaspheme against him you only show people of faith what God has revealed about those who have no faith. Jesus declares reality, John 3: 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.” How convenient for you to completely ignore the fact that God will give us a wondrous existence exploring the universe he created for us. Since the universe is so vast, scientists can’t begin to fathom it intellectually. They don’t even know much about the oceans either, your nature god is quite pathetic compared to your Creator. I was wrong, I don’t think your an atheist at all, in fact you are a polytheist without a doubt. You worship yourself with all the limitations you have and pseudo-science which is not based on the scientific method of observation. Since you worship these false gods then God will give you want you desire forever since he loves you and will never force you to accept the reality he has created. If you do not repent, then you will not be capable of union with the infinite love of God. When you die you will find yourself in the torments of separation from the ONE who is love. All the other suffering will seem like nothing compared to this. God is mercy and so he has sent me to help you realize the truth and he will give you some time to change. Please ask God if he exists to reveal himself to you. I have had many encounters with Divine Love and I hope you will too. I leave you with this quote from Marshall Entrekin, “Imagine a race of aliens living in a nearby solar system who have their own version of Occam’s Razor, and have adopted it as a guiding principle of science. In other words, they believe that among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be chosen. One day, an automated probe from their planet lands in a field on Earth to collect soil and mineral samples. In the process, it happens to scoop up a long lost, small white ceramic teacup from a little girl’s toy tea set. Then it returns to the planet from whence it came. After much consideration, the aliens conclude that despite the fact that the teacup bears the semblance of intelligent design, it was most likely formed by the natural erosion of some kind of stone, and not designed by an intelligence, because erosion would be the simplest and least complex explanation.
Obviously, these aliens have nicked themselves quite badly by shaving with Occam’s Razor. Why?
Because sometimes the most reasonable explanation is not the simplest. And sometimes the true explanation is more complex than its false alternatives.”
You wrote, that the story is nonsensical. The fact that you believe that the complexity of the universe, the complexity of the human eye, and the complexity of a human being with the ability to actually understand complexity, is all possible apart from a Creator is totally nonsensical. You missed the point bud. As for your ignorant statement concerning the Gospel of John, perhaps you should read it again. Here is what Jesus teaches about his body and blood in the Gospel: John 6:52 The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” 53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; 54 he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live for ever.” 59 This he said in the synagogue, as he taught at Capernaum.
60 Many of his disciples, when they heard it, said, “This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?” 61 But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples murmured at it, said to them, “Do you take offense at this? 62 Then what if you were to see the Son of man ascending where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But there are some of you that do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the first who those were that did not believe, and who it was that should betray him. 65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
66 After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him. 67 Jesus said to the twelve, “Will you also go away?” 68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life; 69 and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.”
May God bless you, I forgive you for hating the Living God, our Father. Jesus said, “Father forgive them, they know not what they do.”
Why can’t he remove original sin for everyone? He does through the sacrament of baptism and we call this regeneration of the human person. We become one with Christ and are able to to choose love more easily. However, many Christians choose not to pray or love others and the Spirit of God is hindered from helping us become more like God. The sacrifice of Christ must be interpreted through the reality of sin. If God is infinite holiness, love and goodness then a serious sin offends infinite holiness, love and goodness. This is why perfect justice demands an eternal sentence and only a perfect God-man could fulfill this perfect justice, through the perfect sacrificial love of the cross and save us from eternal damnation. The reason I wrote that you hate God is because I believe you are in denial about Him. I’m sure your intention for spending so much time arguing with the faithful is pure love for us, right? I mean, you want to save us from a happy life of hope and loving each other. Would it not make sense to simply leave us alone if God doe not exist and stop offending us by speaking against the Lord we love so much?
I attempted to explain to you that heaven will be an astounding experience of our Father’s love as he gives us a grand tour of the universe and unimaginable worlds. You completely ignored it and made no comment because you have never considered that the best of this world is only a preview of what is to come for those who love the Creator. It appears to me that you believe you are a god of some sort with these “all-knowing” answers to the mysteries of the Holy Bible. My intention is to help you have a correct reverence for your Father in heaven. You need to be reminded of reality my friend….and you will thank me one day if you are saved and we are together loving God forever 🙂 I will end this spiritual exercise with the words of Almighty God, Proverbs 9:5-12
“Whoever is simple, let him turn in here!”
To him who is without sense she says,
“Come, eat of my bread
and drink of the wine I have mixed.
Leave simpleness, and live,
and walk in the way of insight.”
He who corrects a scoffer gets himself abuse,
and he who reproves a wicked man incurs injury.
Do not reprove a scoffer, or he will hate you;
reprove a wise man, and he will love you.
Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be still wiser;
teach a righteous man and he will increase in learning.
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom,
and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight.
For by me your days will be multiplied,
and years will be added to your life.
If you are wise, you are wise for yourself;
if you scoff, you alone will bear it.
May the Lord have mercy upon your soul and give you peace…
I am a priest and God will hear my prayer…
Hi Patrick, may your uncle rest in peace. The reason why I didn’t answer all your questions is because answers to questions will not help you unless you trust God first. Faith is necessary for understanding and knowledge alone will not save anyone. My son, I leave you with these words of wisdom:
Hebrews 12:1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, 2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God. 3 Consider him who endured such opposition from sinners, so that you will not grow weary and lose heart.
4 In your struggle against sin, you have not yet resisted to the point of shedding your blood. 5 And have you completely forgotten this word of encouragement that addresses you as a father addresses his son? It says,
“My son, do not make light of the Lord’s discipline,
and do not lose heart when he rebukes you,
6
because the Lord disciplines the one he loves,
and he chastens everyone he accepts as his son.”
7 Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father? 8 If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all. 9 Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live! 10 They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness. 11 No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.
Let’s make a deal. After we both die and are judged by Christ, having gained the knowledge of either a virtuous life well-lived or a wasted life of slavery to sin, then let’s have a conversation about all this nonsense you write, if our Father in heaven allows it of course. Shalom upon you and yours…
I know faith is not easy but God loves you and wants to help you through your objections. The Holy Bible is not a science book, it reveals truth that leads us to salvation. So God knows we do not need to know about DNA evidence to be saved. The Adam and Eve story reveals that we are created, perhaps God created us through an evolutionary process or perhaps he created the human body in such a way that the DNA was altered after the fall from grace. I do not need to know this in order to have faith. My faith is based upon God’s presence in my life and my relationship to Christ through prayer. Fear is not evil unless it leads to evil choices. I fear heights and this keeps me from taking unnecessary risks that put my life in danger. If I fear the justice of God this helps me from making unnecessary choices that harm my spiritual life in Christ. St. Faustina was given a vision of heaven to share with the world:
“Today I was in heaven, in spirit,” she wrote in her diary on November 27th, 1936, “and I saw its inconceivable beauties and the happiness that awaits us after death.”
As with all of her visions, what she saw constitutes “private revelation,” and is thus not binding on the Catholic faithful, as public revelation (Scripture and Tradition) is. Nonetheless, it can aid in building up one’s faith.
Here’s what she saw:
“I saw how all creatures give ceaseless praise and glory to God. I saw how great is happiness in God, which spreads to all creatures, making them happy; and then all the glory and praise which springs from this happiness returns to its source; and they enter into the depths of God, contemplating the inner life of God, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, whom they will never comprehend or fathom.
“This source of happiness is unchanging in its essence, but it is always new, gushing forth happiness for all creatures. Now I understand Saint Paul, who said, ‘Eye has not seen, nor has ear heard, nor has it entered into the heart of man what God has prepared for those who love Him.’”
She then writes about what God values most:
“And God has given me to understand that there is but one thing that is of infinite value in His eyes, and that is love of God; love, love and once again, love; and nothing can compare with a single act of pure love of God. Oh, with what inconceivable favors God gifts a soul that loves Him sincerely!
“Oh, how happy is the soul who already here on earth enjoys His special favors! And of such are the little and humble souls.”
She also reports that the sight of God in heaven didn’t bring her fear, but joy:
“The sight of this great majesty of God, which I came to understand more profoundly and which is worshiped by the heavenly spirits according to their degree of grace and the hierarchies into which they are divided, did not cause my soul to be stricken with terror or fear; no, no, not at all!
“My soul was filled with peace and love, and the more I come to know the greatness of God, the more joyful I become that He is as He is. And I rejoice immensely in His greatness and am delighted that I am so little because, since I am little He carries me in His arms and holds me close to His Heart.”
She said the whole experience made her pity those who don’t believe in heaven:
“O my God, how I pity those people who do not believe in eternal life; how I pray for them that a ray of mercy would envelop them too, and that God would clasp them to His fatherly bosom.
“O Love, O queen! Love knows no fear, It passes through all the choirs of angels that stand on guard before his throne. It will fear no one. It reaches God and is immersed in Him as in its sole treasure. The Cherubim who guards paradise with flaming sword, has no power over it. O pure love of God, how great and unequaled you are!
“Oh, if souls only knew your power!” (Diary: Divine Mercy in My Soul, 777-781)
Patrick, perhaps you do not want to believe in God because then you would be held responsible for the evil you do. Here is a miracle for you to consider:
“Research director of the Ian Ramsey Centre for Science and Religion at Oxford University, Fr Andrew Pinsent, states that “a scientific perspective does not rule out miracles, and the event at Fatima is, in the view of many, particularly credible.” He states that a usual prejudice involves a lack of understanding of the scope of scientific laws, which merely describe how natural systems behave isolated from free agents. Concluding that the event is “a public miracle of the most extraordinary kind and credibility”, he sees the year of the event, as connected to significant historical milestones that call for Fatima’s message of repentance: Protestantism in 1517, Freemasonry in 1717 and Atheistic Communism in 1917. Here is what hell is: “I, Sister Faustina Kowalska, by the order of God, have visited the Abysses of Hell so that I might tell souls about it and testify to its existence…the devils were full of hatred for me, but they had to obey me at the command of God, What I have written is but a pale shadow of the things I saw. But I noticed one thing: That most of the souls there are those who disbelieved that there is a hell.” (Diary 741)
The Apostle of Divine Mercy
St. Maria Faustina Kowalska
of the
Congregation of the Sisters of Our Lady of Mercy
“Today, I was led by an angel to the Chasms of Hell. It is a place of great torture; how awesomely large and extensive it is! The kinds of tortures I saw:
The First Torture that constitutes hell is:
The loss of God.
The Second is:
Perpetual remorse of conscience.
The Third is
That one’s condition will never change.
The Fourth is:
The fire that will penetrate the soul without destroying it. A terrible suffering since it is a purely spiritual fire, lit by God’s anger.
The Fifth Torture is:
Continual darkness and a terrible suffocating smell, and despite the darkness, the devils and the souls of the damned see each other and all the evil, both of others and their own.
The Sixth Torture is:
The constant company of Satan.
The Seventh Torture is:
Horrible despair, hatred of God, vile words, curses and blasphemies.
These are the Tortures suffered by all the damned together, but that is not the end of the sufferings.
Indescribable Sufferings
There are special Tortures destined for particular souls. These are the torments of the senses. Each soul undergoes terrible and indescribable sufferings related to the manner in which it has sinned.
I would have died
There are caverns and pits of torture where one form of agony differs from another. I would have died at the very sight of these tortures if the omnipotence of God had not supported me.
No One Can Say There is No Hell
Let the sinner know that he will be tortured throughout all eternity, in those senses which he made use of to sin. I am writing this at the command of God, so that no soul may find an excuse by saying there is no hell, or that nobody has ever been there, and so no one can say what it is like…how terribly souls suffer there! Consequently, I pray even more fervently for the conversion of sinners. I incessantly plead God’s mercy upon them. O My Jesus, I would rather be in agony until the end of the world, amidst the greatest sufferings, than offend you by the least sin.” (Diary 741)
Fr. Seraphim Michalenko, MIC, wrote the following meditation which might help you understand the human condition better.
To whatever extent we become conscious, during our earthly lives, of our inability to rid ourselves completely of whatever blocks us from intimate union with God, we feel [spiritual] pain. We experience a taste of “purgatory,” recognizing how perfectly God loves us, and how imperfectly we love Him in return.
In purgatory this pain is heightened, lifted in a sense to infinity, by the Divine Light that reveals to us at once the infinity and purity of Love, and the full extent of our inordinate self-love.
We are filled with longing for God, whom we now, more than ever before, realize is the only One who can bring us to the fullness of joy. And we suffer the pain of separation from the object of our longing, knowing that it is a separation caused by our own self-centeredness.
But although this is a very real and intense form of suffering, it yet carries with it a character of “sweetness and hope” which we can call purgatorial joy! This joy of souls is the result of having trustingly handed themselves over to God and accepted the purification that arises from their love and longing as their misery truly meets His mercy.
Purgatory is our meeting with Christ who loves us, and of our loving acceptance of His pardoning love. It is our passage to holiness. It is not yet heaven, but it is a definite way to it, since the love of God underlies the purifying suffering of souls. … The souls in purgatory already definitely belong to God and nothing can separate them from Him.
My story is different. I was raised Catholic but didn’t have much faith and went off to college to enjoy life and learn something. During my junior year I began to question why I exist. I was getting good grades, dating, making great friends, my social life was outstanding. But I felt empty inside, my soul was in turmoil because it all seemed useless without an ultimate purpose. For the first time in my life I really prayed to God for answers. I made a good confession of my many sins and received Holy Communion with true faith. What I experienced can only be described as supernatural. Each time I received our Lord in the sacrament of mercy and then in the communion of love my whole being exalted with an inexpressible joy and peace. This blessing changed my life and I am a priest of Jesus Christ today because God had mercy on me in my misery delivered me from a sinful, pathetic life and restored my hope that life and love will never end. I love how the Lord fulfills the Hebrew Scriptures in the New Testament prophesy.
Psalm 92: 1 A psalm. A sabbath song.
2
It is good to give thanks to the Lord,
to sing praise to your name, Most High,
3
To proclaim your love at daybreak,
your faithfulness in the night,
4
With the ten-stringed harp,
with melody upon the lyre.
5
For you make me jubilant, Lord, by your deeds;
at the works of your hands I shout for joy.
II
6
How great are your works, Lord!
How profound your designs!
7
A senseless person cannot know this;
a fool cannot comprehend.
8
Though the wicked flourish like grass
and all sinners thrive,
They are destined for eternal destruction;
9
but you, Lord, are forever on high.
10
Indeed your enemies, Lord,
indeed your enemies shall perish;
all sinners shall be scattered.
Revelation 21: 1 Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth. The former heaven and the former earth had passed away, and the sea was no more. 2 I also saw the holy city, a new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Behold, God’s dwelling is with the human race. He will dwell with them and they will be his people and God himself will always be with them [as their God. 4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes, and there shall be no more death or mourning, wailing or pain, the old order has passed away.”
5 The one who sat on the throne said, “Behold, I make all things new.” Then he said, “Write these words down, for they are trustworthy and true.” 6 He said to me, “They are accomplished. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. To the thirsty I will give a gift from the spring of life-giving water. 7 The victor will inherit these gifts, and I shall be his God, and he will be my son. 8 But as for cowards, the unfaithful, the depraved, murderers, the unchaste, sorcerers, idol-worshipers, and deceivers of every sort, their lot is in the burning pool of fire and sulfur, which is the second death.”
Hi Patrick, trying to explain away spiritual encounters with God is not helpful for us human beings heading into eternity. I don’t want you to go to hell, I want you to come back to God with love, seeking forgiveness. I shared these Scripture passages to help you understand that there will be ultimate justice when Christ returns. Those who love God will receive what they have been promised throughout salvation history and those who despise the God who made them and died for them will receive what they have earned. Here is a little insight from Dr. Peter Kreeft:
“Most philosophers think Pascal’s Wager is the weakest of all arguments for believing in the existence of God. Pascal thought it was the strongest. After finishing the argument in his Pensées, he wrote, “This is conclusive, and if men are capable of any truth, this is it.” That is the only time Pascal ever wrote a sentence like that, for he was one of the most sceptical philosophers who ever wrote.
Suppose someone terribly precious to you lay dying, and the doctor offered to try a new “miracle drug” that he could not guarantee but that seemed to have a 50-50 chance of saving your beloved friend’s life. Would it be reasonable to try it, even if it cost a little money? And suppose it were free—wouldn’t it be utterly reasonable to try it and unreasonable not to?
Suppose you hear reports that your house is on fire and your children are inside. You do not know whether the reports are true or false. What is the reasonable thing to do—to ignore them or to take the time to run home or at least phone home just in case the reports are true?
Suppose a winning sweepstakes ticket is worth a million dollars, and there are only two tickets left. You know that one of them is the winning ticket, while the other is worth nothing, and you are allowed to buy only one of the two tickets, at random. Would it be a good investment to spend a dollar on the good chance of winning a million?
No reasonable person can be or ever is in doubt in such cases. But deciding whether to believe in God is a case like these, argues Pascal. It is therefore the height of folly not to “bet” on God, even if you have no certainty, no proof, no guarantee that your bet will win.”
Since God alone is the Just Judge and knows what each soul has chosen, He will decide each person’s final state of existence. You need to ask God to forgive you because you have refused to believe in Jesus Christ our Savior. John 3:16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.
http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1002.htm
We will be judged on faith, hope, and love not on your pathetic attempt to deconstruct revealed truth. Did you check out the link about St. Thomas Aquinas and his five proofs for the existence of God?
Do we know from the laws of physics that matter can develop from nothing? Is matter able to generate from absolute nothingness?
https://www.facebook.com/ILEARNEDALOTDOTCOM/videos/1082904598522968/?pnref=story
How can energy be eternal? Human beings have intellects, so how can non-intellectual energy form into beings with intellects?
Here is another viewpoint which makes much more sense to the vast majority of “super-bacteria intellectuals” who inhabit planet earth. I will place my bet with Dr. Stephen Barr and prepare for eternity. George Weigel writes, “John Paul II’s challenge has now been taken up by the Society of Catholic Scientists. From a standing start last year, the Society now has almost 400 members, 80 percent of whom hold a doctorate in the natural sciences, the rest being primarily graduate students. That’s an impressive head count for such a new outfit; it also suggests that membership in such a Catholic organization is not an impediment to being taken seriously in the highly competitive academic world of natural science. SCS’s inaugural conference in April was addressed by scholars from Harvard, Oxford, MIT, Penn, Brown, and the University of Texas at Austin.
The moving force in organizing the Society has been Dr. Stephen Barr, professor of theoretical particle physics at the University of Delaware. Barr’s engaging and accessible articles have long been familiar to readers of FIRST THINGS, and those looking for something different by way of vacation reading this summer might pick up the recently-published collection of his essays, The Believing Scientist. There, Barr discusses everything from evolution to the mind/soul debate to Big Bang cosmology to science-as-ersatz-religion, while gently skewering a few luminaries who begin to talk nonsense when they venture beyond their remit as scientists.
The Bible teaches that God impressed his intelligibility onto the world through creation by the Word. When that conviction weakens, faith in reason begins to crumble and the result is the intellectual playpen known as post-modernism. In renewing the covenant between faith and reason, the Society of Catholic Scientists serves the good of both—and of our culture.”
God is with us, and we will follow the one and only church, god bless everyone and bring peace among Men.
Hi Patrick, you certainly have some well thought out arguments to justify your form of atheism. First of all, the reality of death as an apparent contradiction to the beauty and goodness we experience during life is something no scientist can explain. If death is the final end to a human being’s consciousness then all the choices and experiences of life have no ultimate purpose since a person ceases to know and exist. If you don’t agree with this then it’s useless to continue this conversation because you are not using reason. Since life does have goodness and beauty and love then there must be an ultimate, transcendent source for this who will give us an eternal life of happiness that can never get boring since God is infinite goodness and love. The resurrection of Jesus Christ, which is historical because 500 people saw him at one time after he was crucified, demonstrates that we will not be raised as zombies but be glorified like Christ with the ability to go anywhere in the universe at the speed of thought. This is in no way existing as a zombie with a boring life on a cloud. What will truly be amazing is seeing God who is infinite beauty and knowing absolute love forever. Hell exists because Satan has made it for himself, the other fallen angels and all foolish humans who choose death rather than the God of life. God gives free will because he cannot force us to love and he is also just. If there is no God, then there is no final justice. Hitler and Mother Teresa are equal and both receive the exact same thing for all their actions—–death and a rotten corpse. Thanks be to God our Creator who is perfect love and justice, Hitler receives what he earned and so does Saint Teresa of Calcutta. For you to claim that God does love love us is absolute absurdity. God would never allow rebellious, wicked people to dwell with His children who love their Father with gratitude. Choose who you will serve…the Living God or the god of death who is Lucifer, the unrepentant spirit of darkness. Your choice will have ultimate and eternal consequences.
Is the entire Genesis account of our origins literal or metaphorical? The Catholic Church believes much of it is a metaphor. The god you bow down to is your own false idea of reality. God is holy, perfect love and perfect justice, therefore when you blaspheme against him you only show people of faith what God has revealed about those who have no faith. Jesus declares reality, John 3: 19 This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.” How convenient for you to completely ignore the fact that God will give us a wondrous existence exploring the universe he created for us. Since the universe is so vast, scientists can’t begin to fathom it intellectually. They don’t even know much about the oceans either, your nature god is quite pathetic compared to your Creator. I was wrong, I don’t think your an atheist at all, in fact you are a polytheist without a doubt. You worship yourself with all the limitations you have and pseudo-science which is not based on the scientific method of observation. Since you worship these false gods then God will give you want you desire forever since he loves you and will never force you to accept the reality he has created. If you do not repent, then you will not be capable of union with the infinite love of God. When you die you will find yourself in the torments of separation from the ONE who is love. All the other suffering will seem like nothing compared to this. God is mercy and so he has sent me to help you realize the truth and he will give you some time to change. Please ask God if he exists to reveal himself to you. I have had many encounters with Divine Love and I hope you will too. I leave you with this quote from Marshall Entrekin, “Imagine a race of aliens living in a nearby solar system who have their own version of Occam’s Razor, and have adopted it as a guiding principle of science. In other words, they believe that among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be chosen. One day, an automated probe from their planet lands in a field on Earth to collect soil and mineral samples. In the process, it happens to scoop up a long lost, small white ceramic teacup from a little girl’s toy tea set. Then it returns to the planet from whence it came. After much consideration, the aliens conclude that despite the fact that the teacup bears the semblance of intelligent design, it was most likely formed by the natural erosion of some kind of stone, and not designed by an intelligence, because erosion would be the simplest and least complex explanation.
Obviously, these aliens have nicked themselves quite badly by shaving with Occam’s Razor. Why?
Because sometimes the most reasonable explanation is not the simplest. And sometimes the true explanation is more complex than its false alternatives.”
You wrote, that the story is nonsensical. The fact that you believe that the complexity of the universe, the complexity of the human eye, and the complexity of a human being with the ability to actually understand complexity, is all possible apart from a Creator is totally nonsensical. You missed the point bud. As for your ignorant statement concerning the Gospel of John, perhaps you should read it again. Here is what Jesus teaches about his body and blood in the Gospel: John 6:52 The Jews then disputed among themselves, saying, “How can this man give us his flesh to eat?” 53 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; 54 he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For my flesh is food indeed, and my blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats my flesh and drinks my blood abides in me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so he who eats me will live because of me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven, not such as the fathers ate and died; he who eats this bread will live for ever.” 59 This he said in the synagogue, as he taught at Capernaum.
60 Many of his disciples, when they heard it, said, “This is a hard saying; who can listen to it?” 61 But Jesus, knowing in himself that his disciples murmured at it, said to them, “Do you take offense at this? 62 Then what if you were to see the Son of man ascending where he was before? 63 It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life. 64 But there are some of you that do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the first who those were that did not believe, and who it was that should betray him. 65 And he said, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father.”
66 After this many of his disciples drew back and no longer went about with him. 67 Jesus said to the twelve, “Will you also go away?” 68 Simon Peter answered him, “Lord, to whom shall we go? You have the words of eternal life; 69 and we have believed, and have come to know, that you are the Holy One of God.”
May God bless you, I forgive you for hating the Living God, our Father. Jesus said, “Father forgive them, they know not what they do.”
Why can’t he remove original sin for everyone? He does through the sacrament of baptism and we call this regeneration of the human person. We become one with Christ and are able to to choose love more easily. However, many Christians choose not to pray or love others and the Spirit of God is hindered from helping us become more like God. The sacrifice of Christ must be interpreted through the reality of sin. If God is infinite holiness, love and goodness then a serious sin offends infinite holiness, love and goodness. This is why perfect justice demands an eternal sentence and only a perfect God-man could fulfill this perfect justice, through the perfect sacrificial love of the cross and save us from eternal damnation. The reason I wrote that you hate God is because I believe you are in denial about Him. I’m sure your intention for spending so much time arguing with the faithful is pure love for us, right? I mean, you want to save us from a happy life of hope and loving each other. Would it not make sense to simply leave us alone if God doe not exist and stop offending us by speaking against the Lord we love so much?
I attempted to explain to you that heaven will be an astounding experience of our Father’s love as he gives us a grand tour of the universe and unimaginable worlds. You completely ignored it and made no comment because you have never considered that the best of this world is only a preview of what is to come for those who love the Creator. It appears to me that you believe you are a god of some sort with these “all-knowing” answers to the mysteries of the Holy Bible. My intention is to help you have a correct reverence for your Father in heaven. You need to be reminded of reality my friend….and you will thank me one day if you are saved and we are together loving God forever 🙂 I will end this spiritual exercise with the words of Almighty God, Proverbs 9:5-12
“Whoever is simple, let him turn in here!”
To him who is without sense she says,
“Come, eat of my bread
and drink of the wine I have mixed.
Leave simpleness, and live,
and walk in the way of insight.”
He who corrects a scoffer gets himself abuse,
and he who reproves a wicked man incurs injury.
Do not reprove a scoffer, or he will hate you;
reprove a wise man, and he will love you.
Give instruction to a wise man, and he will be still wiser;
teach a righteous man and he will increase in learning.
The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom,
and the knowledge of the Holy One is insight.
For by me your days will be multiplied,
and years will be added to your life.
If you are wise, you are wise for yourself;
if you scoff, you alone will bear it.
While we are not in the age to produce “evidence” such as special miracles or healing or demand appearances or apparitions (I have no confidence in the charismatic movement saying things contrary to what the Bible indicates and that only the practice of agape or unconditional love sometimes translated charity being the only credibility giving gifts left the church age saints) we do have the imaginations of men using cosmic big bang ideas that seem to mirror the celestial big bang theory of the Lucifer or Satan or Devil of the Bible as the reason for the doubt of Lucifer as to the real nature of JHVH GODS (or Elohim plural of God in a sense of the trinity). I could see Lucifer becoming self aware after his creation and on his left hand he sees a more powerful spiritual being and on his right the lessor angels STILL in the confusion of their being aware. Noticing that Lucifer himself was faster at this self awareness than those lower glories of his fellow angels, he would suspect later that the greater glory of God might have allowed Him to be faster in self awareness than Lucifer’s lower glory and thought as his DEFECT God speaks of that the “God” glory might have ALSO been created in this Celestial Big bang (theory) and in taking advantage of it insisted He was actually the CREATOR so as to gain ascendency over the lesser glories such as Lucifer and his comrades. Noticing in the creation that there would be HUMAN spirits of the likes of the Angels as spirits, continuing to appear, Lucifer conceited that by gathering those spirits to him along with the third he was able to deceive of the angels, he would be able to rise above the greater glory of God Himself. His disrespect (outside of his respect of the power of the greater glory) of the claims of JHVH is why he attacked the GOD of THE GODS (elohim or trinity) called JESUS having a newly acquired human body in seeing if He could draw even THAT portion of the GODS (ELOHIM or trinity) to himself.
God created man as a mirror of himself, and as a Creator, we have also, though tainted in our fall to have KNOWLEDGE of good and evil, derive our OWN creations in our mind (science fiction) of how OUR creation would be if WE were indeed creators, and this BIG BANG of the things called scientists today to derive an origin of the Universe sans an idea of a personal CREATOR, is but a mirror of LUCIFER’S imagination of a Celestial Big Bang, when God said
Ezekiel 28:14-15 (KJV)
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
God was talking through the King of Tyros to Lucifer as Jesus talked through Peter to Satan.
So while we do not have direct evidence, we do have hints on how this Lucifer, Satan, Devil, who had close access to God as to have been one of the Angels that covereth, to have doubted even JHVH that he was his creator, by the imaginations of men like yourself who do not desire to have God reign over you.
Perhaps the gist of what I was saying is that the creations of mens minds concerning a physical celestial big bang to get around a concept of a Personal God creating all of this, might mirror, from hints given in the Bible, the source of the great “iniquity” that was found in the deceiver of our human race. Since this hint is found in the Hebrew Bible, I am not going to be too interested in so called other CHRISTIAN texts that make JHVH the Lucifer. I will admit it here in concert with the sentiment of Jesus in those Christian texts I accept, that the Hebrew Bible is not to be contradicted (I am not saying that JUDAISM as we see it in its forms today, is not to be contradicted, but that of the original Hebrew RELIGION).
The Jews had a faith in JHVH, and the Christians have a faith in JHVH.
The Jews had a RELIGION based on the faith in JHVH, and the Christians have a RELIGION based on the faith in JHVH.
The Hebrew Bible deals primarily with the RELIGION in reference to the Jews, and the Christian scriptures deals primarily with the FAITH, and this is the difference, not that we actually have two different world views.
The Hebrew Bible tends to make secondarily the FAITH, and the Christian literature makes secondarily the RELIGION.
The confusion in the Christian world is when the Catholics and other sects try to make primary the RELIGION.
Now RELIGION is things that we mainly DO (and governments are dealing with things we DO), and HERE is where things go a bit screwy in that the things that must be DONE BY RELIGION were seen by some, actually one I can’t remember the name of on the tip of my 70 year old tongue, more conveniently done by the SWORD OF THE GOVERNMENT since it might have been thought they were more experienced in compelling folk by that tool. When Catholics gave that up, and we provided in America a haven for those Catholics willing to follow the admonition of Paul in Romans 12:18, even in our messy American History of its founding, we lived in a modicum of peace, at least amongst ourselves. This is the best we could hope for, and why in spite of the messiness we feel we have a society with the most Liberty that can be expected, one that merits our best to continue.
As far as the the Asherah is concerned, the Hebrews were never the greatest in wanting to follow the one ELOHIM (a plurality that indicates the trinity in the Hebrew scriptures when applied to JHVH) and were continually taking up this or that other deity and attributing to that the main attributes God exhibited on the Mountain during the Exodus. HECK, even while at the base of the mount, they were doing that, by attributing to a calf those attributes of the JHVH who was leading them out of Egypt:
Exodus 32:1-4 (KJV)
1 And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.
2 And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them unto me.
3 And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron.
4 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
If this is the attitude of the Hebrews when they were in the presence of JHVH they were not allowed to look upon, I would not be surprised that we find evidence of all sorts of things associated with JHVH. If you notice it was this one calf they were calling ELOHIM or plurality…but in their minds they would notice something missing, and every great god in their experience had a consort thus an Asherah, and remember when the kingdom split, and the Jews kept their temple and thus a hidden Deity, the northern kingdom took the same RELIGION but dedicated IT to some calves as well. Your concept of redaction and such is based on an already debunked theory in Bible criticism, and advanced by those that seem to actually have a hatred toward that Bible. As for “told not to worship no gods before him.” Moses admitted already these be the gods in the land in the imaginations of the people of the land they were going to dispossess…not that they had any reality in the spiritual world JHVH exists in.
While we are not in the age to produce “evidence” such as special miracles or healing or demand appearances or apparitions (I have no confidence in the charismatic movement saying things contrary to what the Bible indicates and that only the practice of agape or unconditional love sometimes translated charity being the only credibility giving gifts left the church age saints) we do have the imaginations of men using cosmic big bang ideas that seem to mirror the celestial big bang theory of the Lucifer or Satan or Devil of the Bible as the reason for the doubt of Lucifer as to the real nature of JHVH GODS (or Elohim plural of God in a sense of the trinity). I could see Lucifer becoming self aware after his creation and on his left hand he sees a more powerful spiritual being and on his right the lessor angels STILL in the confusion of their being aware. Noticing that Lucifer himself was faster at this self awareness than those lower glories of his fellow angels, he would suspect later that the greater glory of God might have allowed Him to be faster in self awareness than Lucifer’s lower glory and thought as his DEFECT God speaks of that the “God” glory might have ALSO been created in this Celestial Big bang (theory) and in taking advantage of it insisted He was actually the CREATOR so as to gain ascendency over the lesser glories such as Lucifer and his comrades. Noticing in the creation that there would be HUMAN spirits of the likes of the Angels as spirits, continuing to appear, Lucifer conceited that by gathering those spirits to him along with the third he was able to deceive of the angels, he would be able to rise above the greater glory of God Himself. His disrespect (outside of his respect of the power of the greater glory) of the claims of JHVH is why he attacked the GOD of THE GODS (elohim or trinity) called JESUS having a newly acquired human body in seeing if He could draw even THAT portion of the GODS (ELOHIM or trinity) to himself.
God created man as a mirror of himself, and as a Creator, we have also, though tainted in our fall to have KNOWLEDGE of good and evil, derive our OWN creations in our mind (science fiction) of how OUR creation would be if WE were indeed creators, and this BIG BANG of the things called scientists today to derive an origin of the Universe sans an idea of a personal CREATOR, is but a mirror of LUCIFER’S imagination of a Celestial Big Bang, when God said
Ezekiel 28:14-15 (KJV)
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
God was talking through the King of Tyros to Lucifer as Jesus talked through Peter to Satan.
So while we do not have direct evidence, we do have hints on how this Lucifer, Satan, Devil, who had close access to God as to have been one of the Angels that covereth, to have doubted even JHVH that he was his creator, by the imaginations of men like yourself who do not desire to have God reign over you.
Perhaps the gist of what I was saying is that the creations of mens minds concerning a physical celestial big bang to get around a concept of a Personal God creating all of this, might mirror, from hints given in the Bible, the source of the great “iniquity” that was found in the deceiver of our human race. Since this hint is found in the Hebrew Bible, I am not going to be too interested in so called other CHRISTIAN texts that make JHVH the Lucifer. I will admit it here in concert with the sentiment of Jesus in those Christian texts I accept, that the Hebrew Bible is not to be contradicted (I am not saying that JUDAISM as we see it in its forms today, is not to be contradicted, but that of the original Hebrew RELIGION).
The Jews had a faith in JHVH, and the Christians have a faith in JHVH.
The Jews had a RELIGION based on the faith in JHVH, and the Christians have a RELIGION based on the faith in JHVH.
The Hebrew Bible deals primarily with the RELIGION in reference to the Jews, and the Christian scriptures deals primarily with the FAITH, and this is the difference, not that we actually have two different world views.
The Hebrew Bible tends to make secondarily the FAITH, and the Christian literature makes secondarily the RELIGION.
The confusion in the Christian world is when the Catholics and other sects try to make primary the RELIGION.
Now RELIGION is things that we mainly DO (and governments are dealing with things we DO), and HERE is where things go a bit screwy in that the things that must be DONE BY RELIGION were seen by some, actually one I can’t remember the name of on the tip of my 70 year old tongue, more conveniently done by the SWORD OF THE GOVERNMENT since it might have been thought they were more experienced in compelling folk by that tool. When Catholics gave that up, and we provided in America a haven for those Catholics willing to follow the admonition of Paul in Romans 12:18, even in our messy American History of its founding, we lived in a modicum of peace, at least amongst ourselves. This is the best we could hope for, and why in spite of the messiness we feel we have a society with the most Liberty that can be expected, one that merits our best to continue.
As far as the the Asherah is concerned, the Hebrews were never the greatest in wanting to follow the one ELOHIM (a plurality that indicates the trinity in the Hebrew scriptures when applied to JHVH) and were continually taking up this or that other deity and attributing to that the main attributes God exhibited on the Mountain during the Exodus. HECK, even while at the base of the mount, they were doing that, by attributing to a calf those attributes of the JHVH who was leading them out of Egypt:
Exodus 32:1-4 (KJV)
1 And when the people saw that Moses delayed to come down out of the mount, the people gathered themselves together unto Aaron, and said unto him, Up, make us gods, which shall go before us; for as for this Moses, the man that brought us up out of the land of Egypt, we wot not what is become of him.
2 And Aaron said unto them, Break off the golden earrings, which are in the ears of your wives, of your sons, and of your daughters, and bring them unto me.
3 And all the people brake off the golden earrings which were in their ears, and brought them unto Aaron.
4 And he received them at their hand, and fashioned it with a graving tool, after he had made it a molten calf: and they said, These be thy gods, O Israel, which brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.
If this is the attitude of the Hebrews when they were in the presence of JHVH they were not allowed to look upon, I would not be surprised that we find evidence of all sorts of things associated with JHVH. If you notice it was this one calf they were calling ELOHIM or plurality…but in their minds they would notice something missing, and every great god in their experience had a consort thus an Asherah, and remember when the kingdom split, and the Jews kept their temple and thus a hidden Deity, the northern kingdom took the same RELIGION but dedicated IT to some calves as well. Your concept of redaction and such is based on an already debunked theory in Bible criticism, and advanced by those that seem to actually have a hatred toward that Bible. As for “told not to worship no gods before him.” Moses admitted already these be the gods in the land in the imaginations of the people of the land they were going to dispossess…not that they had any reality in the spiritual world JHVH exists in.
The term PREVAIL does not mean like the church is in a fort and resists the onslaughts of armies in some sort of siege. It is quite the reverse, but I have to take it according to the Bible and not Catholic dogma. Every assembly or congregation of a true church is a complete body of Christ as hinted in Matthew 18 where according to the law of two or three witnesses that establishes a matter as first spoken of in the Torah of Moses (churches made up of people must have at least TWO or THREE MEMBERS to be a testimony to the world) if two or three persecuted immersed Christians gather in a safe place, they then assemble themselves as a congregation, and if so, there is where Christ is as head. When the Jerusalem church (only time the church was ONE of all the believers) was persecuted and split by that persecution, the members fled in all directions and suddenly there were CHURCHES, and this is how it has been since. Every church then lies in ambushment against any local gate of hell and then the CHURCH is advancing, spiritually, against the powers holding the elect captive behind those gates of hell (their destination if they do not have Christ), and passing through such gates, they rescue the souls by the gospel.
The Bible specifically says Christianity will not be advanced by the sword, and it never has (though things called churches have done so), for it is governments that are ordained by God to protect the righteous by being the secular sword or management of the force of the community, or basically all of us who can hold weapons.
2 Corinthians 10:3-6 (KJV)
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.
Our weapon is the persuasion of the Gospel where God actually does the drawing of folk to Christ, not our holding some weapon of iron against their backsides pushing them to the alter. It is why the Baptist Pastor named Leonard Busher pleaded with King James in his RELIGIOUS FREEDOM or the Liberty of Conscience in 1615 to consider not persecuting Christians not named as some established religion like the Anglican or in Europe the Catholics. He even, when you consider words, pled for in the first time in the English language in a publication for a FREEDOM OF THE PRESS, and ironically EVEN FOR THE PAPISTS, credible as long as they use the BIBLE not their traditions for arguments of things that Christians must do.
Too bad you have no cotton picking understanding of SCIENCE (or Sciencia in Latin for KNOWLEDGE ad GNOSIS is the Greek for KNOWLEDGE). The Scientific method is based upon this law of two or three witnesses that establishes a matter concerning how rigorous the Bible writers dealt with eyewitness testimony which is a major part of the Christian derived SCIENTIFIC METHOD, though a search for knowledge is an ancient art. This scientific method was the basis for the chemistry, biology, physics which for the most part were developed by Christians to give the ancient search for knowledge some credibility, at least for things that could be SEEN, or OBSERVED by multiple witnesses if the event is singularly unique. Origins are completely out of the question for the scientific methodology since such cannot be seen. Now while I am not a Catholic, and my sect has been under persecution by the Catholics in times past, at least I appreciate these Scientists who were many times of the Catholic faith, as I am of those who stopped the advance of Islam into Europe. I even appreciate the modern American Catholics who tasted in America, even amid some local persecutions of protestants here who had reason to worry about them in Europe, this liberty of conscience which they embraced and considering Rhode Island being Baptist, by taking in the persecuted of Catholic faith and of some others, the Catholics prospered so much it is now two thirds Catholic and the Baptist sought haven in the Heaven of Texas, which in a way is a better place. I even wanted CATHOLIC and BLACK Alan Keyes for my president over my hometown Midland, Texas homie, Georgie W. Bush, a while ago, because he KNEW and took on our founders concepts and willed to reinstate them were he able to.
You have always a mixed group in the community, including the likes of you, Mr. Gannon, who have as much power of communication in a notion founded upon the concept of Liberty of Conscience and the freedom of the press, BOTH CONCEPTS being a Biblically derived principle, that can sway even the best of political experiments such as ours, and with more vigor, because what we basically are concerning some morality is offensive to the evil of this world. Our words, are powerful too, but only when the JHVH behind them direct them to the hearts, to the minds that are only truthful to themselves in the dark of night hidden in their closets, like yours is when not provoked to justify your lack.
I am not Catholic, they were a political foe in Europe, and a persecutor of the likes of me, and, yet, in America until they can be enlightened fully, about the JHVH/JESUS of our common archive of testimony we call the Bible, were they to give credence ONLY to that source, those willing to embrace and defend this concept of Liberty of Conscience, can agree with us to defend against others who come after us with a sword (and all that which this metaphor suggests).
But even these governments can go off course when the righteous are not truly guiding them, like in our past hundred and so years where politics seems too dirty for the lazy Christian to be involved in. I am not too sure we are fighting anyone BECAUSE they are a threat to the safety of the righteous American, because there are other interests, largely directed by people similar in disbelief as you, or even those dark lords YOU despise as well, since Satan apparently is not truly affectionate to any of humanity.
The current wordspeak seems to be to spread Democracy, as substitute for the type of Constitutional Republic we originally are represented by, to the world that cannot even be prepared for it unless the majority is of the type of faith, generally more Protestant, than even we are today. Democracy is worthless to LIBERTY when the people in choosing their form of government is of a mind to choose the anti-freedom concept of Islam or socialism or even any OTHER world view out there that is controlled by the dark side. I make no apology that I am biased toward that which REALLY allows us more Liberty and is truly affectionate to the survival of innocent life, even if I have to share it with non-believers who just happens to enjoy not being trident poked concerning every aspect of life. There ARE those seemed oppressed when in the evil of their heart they actually seek contradictory virtues to Liberty such as that of the LICENSE John Locke, who himself was but a near Christian, speaks of that is deleterious to innocent life, to be offended by, just for the thrill of being contrarian. You speak of the “all of them must be wrong except the one we belong to.” Our Biblically derived Liberty of Conscience actually allows us to live among those unbelievers who do not want draconian government interfering with their lives. This effort of the likes of us is the best we can do to live up to Paul’s admonition:
Romans 12:18-21 (KJV)
18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
This is the society that individuals of the likes of us hope to work in, to allow the unbeliever a bit of space to make his decisions, mainly because we all go through that stage before God reveals to the elect of us that we are objects of His mercy, and if you just take it on the basis of self preservation, we would hate to be wounded coming into the community of the righteous. When we are not forced to duck for incoming, we advance Christianity without use of the sword. But INCOMING does happen, even in our society, and the government is that which deals with those who despise innocent life who live in the world of LICENSE, I guess the keyword is when it comes to protecting INNOCENT LIFE, not morals, we resort to weapons. It is the same with our reaction to the world outside our national borders. If those come to take our innocent lives, deprive us of Liberty once we have been made free within our border, or property that maintains our innocent lives, Saint and sinner of us in America are obligated to protect this Liberty.
There IS NOT GOING to be peace. We have no hope in our current age this side of what we call the rapture to have a Theocracy that folk claim we are trying to have in America, mainly because a true Theocracy would have God directly and visibly leading us with prophets and such. That will come, but not through our efforts and even that of a very pristine CHRISTIAN America, because the Camelot concept of AMERICA is our best efforts toward peace or to live PEACEABLY with all, with the caveats of IF IT BE POSSIBLE and AS MUCH AS LIETH IN YOU (or us of the righteous).
If America is using a sword right now against others, it is NOT us the leaders of Christianity guiding it unless against those who in spite of our patience insists on destroying us. The communists were such, and now it seems this Islam renewal, but while we do not desire it, we are not too surprised because even our Bible talks of turmoil, but since America is Christianity’s BEST effort to date, I am not willing to give it up, because out there, there is NO refuge for the likes of me.
If you are agreeing that darkness hates light. I can live with that. If you are hinting if we get RID of the light, there will be peace, there is that parting of ways. Yep, its ALL OF THEM against us. YEP, if it means that by believing Jesus when He says, “I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE, and NO MAN COMETH UNTO THE FATHER BUT BY ME, is bigotry, then when you paint that b on my back, make it a capital B. But I am not going to come after you with a sword to change your mind, but you are not going to stop me telling this truth as found in our Bible. I was made FREE and I am going to USE it to remain free.
I appreciated the Catholics when we Baptists and photo-Baptists were too weak to defend ourselves against the Islamic onslaughts, as I appreciate Jefferson, whom my Baptist spiritual forefathers, supported because he tried to help us as well in a political sense. If I had my druthers, I would have had CATHOLIC and BLACK Alan Keyes for my president over my GEORGIE W. BUSH fellow Midland, Texas homeowner homey. The Catholic somewhat hesitant response to Islamic adventurism was basically that A RESPONSE whether or not they included incentives that were not so always that of self preservation.
My original discussion or entrance into this was to correct a theological concept concerning the word PREVAIL. That was an offensive term weather than defensive in nature. In the spiritual front where we can spiritually confront the Gates of Hell in reference to people’s souls, the church’s position is to besiege those things that cause folk to be trapped in error, by the powerful words as found in the Corinthian statement of Paul concerning our warfare.
On this one thing I am actually having a hard time to NOT agree with what you are saying, and how the English of this is used. I AM saying that the church or rather a local, visible assembly, in that there is no such thing as ONE UNIVERSAL INVISIBLE or even VISIBLE ASSEMBLY, for an assembly may be as small as two or three, is in fact ON THE MARCH AGAINST in a manner of warfare that it can only be capable of, basically, in testifying the gospel to every part of the world that every true assembly of Christ has launched itself at. Am I not ALMOST saying what you are referring to? “from which to launch attacks on others who happen not to believe the same things.” The assembly is founded upon the WORDS of the saying,
Matthew 16:16 (KJV)
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
This is the portable tool AGAINST the things of Satan, including his “gates of Hell.”
I don’t doubt that the Gates of Hell are the sally ports of hordes of error laden fiends and that they assault the assembly, but since the words of the Gospel are actually offensive weapons, not defensive, for you remember what I quoted before:
2 Corinthians 10:3-6 (KJV)
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.
So even taking your generalized definition of simply “prove more powerful than opposing forces,” since GATES are fixed places in edifices THAT MAY EXALT ITSELF AGAINST THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD, as being FIXED, and a defensive feature, it can only HOLD OUT AGAINST A FORCE and thus prove superior, OR SUPERIOR forces moving against the GATE prove more powerful and the edifice is breached…check mate.
Apparently the Gate has no future it will simply NOT HOLD OUT (prevail or prove more powerful) than the OFFENSIVE TOOL of the established truth that JESUS is the CHRIST, the SON OF THE LIVING GOD” that DOES PREVAIL.
The law of two or three witnesses defines in application the church as seen in Matthew 18:
Matthew 18:16-20 (KJV)
16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESS EVERY WORD BE ESTABLISHED
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
19 Again I say unto you, That if TWO of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
20 For where TWO OR THREE ARE GATHERED TOGETHER IN MY NAME, there am I in the midst of them.
Gathering together is synonymous to BEING ASSEMBLED in a church (assembly) sense.
One person is NOT a church and alone may not be able to prevail against another or hold out against ONE who might be superior in power to him. But we have this type of proverb or preaching point in the Bible concerning an application of the Torah law of two or three witnesses that Moses introduced concerning judgments, as paraphrased “in the mouth of ONE WITNESS shall NO man be put to death, but in the mouth of WITNESSES, TWO OR THREE, shall a matter be established:”
Ecclesiastes 4:12 (KJV)
12 And if one prevail against him, two shall withstand him; and a threefold cord is not quickly broken.
Here we have your case of one trying to hold out against another though more powerful ONE. When the besieged calls 911 and a knight in shining honor comes to assist, then there is more power than any ONE, and where the ONE once PREVAILED in his assault, the TWO withstand the assault, and there is this added commentary that ties this as an application of the law of two or three witnesses that establishes a matter, “a THREEfold cord is NOT QUICKLY BROKEN.
But again, the GATE is a fixed feature with only the ability to hold off a breach or in case of superior power is indeed breached. So Jesus says the church in its assault on that local gate of Hell the church is located in ambusheshment before (two or three gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them) and in application of the gospel (since no WEAPON of steel can be used) the fixed gate is breached and thus cannot prevail (or prove more powerful than) the assault.
Of course these are tedious things that can be determined in an archive of testimony you are not willing to have any confidence in, but I won’t fault you in participating in the discussion, and while the lesson may not fall on you, others may be comforted. I do know that the elect of God are unknown and are found just about anywhere, and when such words are placed in their ears, GOD will do that which is necessary to bring them out of the chains of the enemy and retrieve them through the failed gates of Hell they would have otherwise have been confined behind. And that is the actual thrust of Jesus’ message, not that we go out of our way and kill unbelievers…this is GOD’S bailiwick. We were ALL unbelievers at one time. Since we do NOT know who are the elect, we broadcast to ALL our unconditional love if we are able, and if we have to duck, we have government that tries to protect us in our liberty to persuade people that we are unable to compel to obedience to the word by some sword. There is a bit of reason here.
The term PREVAIL does not mean like the church is in a fort and resists the onslaughts of armies in some sort of siege. It is quite the reverse, but I have to take it according to the Bible and not Catholic dogma. Every assembly or congregation of a true church is a complete body of Christ as hinted in Matthew 18 where according to the law of two or three witnesses that establishes a matter as first spoken of in the Torah of Moses (churches made up of people must have at least TWO or THREE MEMBERS to be a testimony to the world) if two or three persecuted immersed Christians gather in a safe place, they then assemble themselves as a congregation, and if so, there is where Christ is as head. When the Jerusalem church (only time the church was ONE of all the believers) was persecuted and split by that persecution, the members fled in all directions and suddenly there were CHURCHES, and this is how it has been since. Every church then lies in ambushment against any local gate of hell and then the CHURCH is advancing, spiritually, against the powers holding the elect captive behind those gates of hell (their destination if they do not have Christ), and passing through such gates, they rescue the souls by the gospel.
The Bible specifically says Christianity will not be advanced by the sword, and it never has (though things called churches have done so), for it is governments that are ordained by God to protect the righteous by being the secular sword or management of the force of the community, or basically all of us who can hold weapons.
2 Corinthians 10:3-6 (KJV)
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.
Our weapon is the persuasion of the Gospel where God actually does the drawing of folk to Christ, not our holding some weapon of iron against their backsides pushing them to the alter. It is why the Baptist Pastor named Leonard Busher pleaded with King James in his RELIGIOUS FREEDOM or the Liberty of Conscience in 1615 to consider not persecuting Christians not named as some established religion like the Anglican or in Europe the Catholics. He even, when you consider words, pled for in the first time in the English language in a publication for a FREEDOM OF THE PRESS, and ironically EVEN FOR THE PAPISTS, credible as long as they use the BIBLE not their traditions for arguments of things that Christians must do.
Too bad you have no cotton picking understanding of SCIENCE (or Sciencia in Latin for KNOWLEDGE ad GNOSIS is the Greek for KNOWLEDGE). The Scientific method is based upon this law of two or three witnesses that establishes a matter concerning how rigorous the Bible writers dealt with eyewitness testimony which is a major part of the Christian derived SCIENTIFIC METHOD, though a search for knowledge is an ancient art. This scientific method was the basis for the chemistry, biology, physics which for the most part were developed by Christians to give the ancient search for knowledge some credibility, at least for things that could be SEEN, or OBSERVED by multiple witnesses if the event is singularly unique. Origins are completely out of the question for the scientific methodology since such cannot be seen. Now while I am not a Catholic, and my sect has been under persecution by the Catholics in times past, at least I appreciate these Scientists who were many times of the Catholic faith, as I am of those who stopped the advance of Islam into Europe. I even appreciate the modern American Catholics who tasted in America, even amid some local persecutions of protestants here who had reason to worry about them in Europe, this liberty of conscience which they embraced and considering Rhode Island being Baptist, by taking in the persecuted of Catholic faith and of some others, the Catholics prospered so much it is now two thirds Catholic and the Baptist sought haven in the Heaven of Texas, which in a way is a better place. I even wanted CATHOLIC and BLACK Alan Keyes for my president over my hometown Midland, Texas homie, Georgie W. Bush, a while ago, because he KNEW and took on our founders concepts and willed to reinstate them were he able to.
You have always a mixed group in the community, including the likes of you, Mr. Gannon, who have as much power of communication in a notion founded upon the concept of Liberty of Conscience and the freedom of the press, BOTH CONCEPTS being a Biblically derived principle, that can sway even the best of political experiments such as ours, and with more vigor, because what we basically are concerning some morality is offensive to the evil of this world. Our words, are powerful too, but only when the JHVH behind them direct them to the hearts, to the minds that are only truthful to themselves in the dark of night hidden in their closets, like yours is when not provoked to justify your lack.
I am not Catholic, they were a political foe in Europe, and a persecutor of the likes of me, and, yet, in America until they can be enlightened fully, about the JHVH/JESUS of our common archive of testimony we call the Bible, were they to give credence ONLY to that source, those willing to embrace and defend this concept of Liberty of Conscience, can agree with us to defend against others who come after us with a sword (and all that which this metaphor suggests).
But even these governments can go off course when the righteous are not truly guiding them, like in our past hundred and so years where politics seems too dirty for the lazy Christian to be involved in. I am not too sure we are fighting anyone BECAUSE they are a threat to the safety of the righteous American, because there are other interests, largely directed by people similar in disbelief as you, or even those dark lords YOU despise as well, since Satan apparently is not truly affectionate to any of humanity.
The current wordspeak seems to be to spread Democracy, as substitute for the type of Constitutional Republic we originally are represented by, to the world that cannot even be prepared for it unless the majority is of the type of faith, generally more Protestant, than even we are today. Democracy is worthless to LIBERTY when the people in choosing their form of government is of a mind to choose the anti-freedom concept of Islam or socialism or even any OTHER world view out there that is controlled by the dark side. I make no apology that I am biased toward that which REALLY allows us more Liberty and is truly affectionate to the survival of innocent life, even if I have to share it with non-believers who just happens to enjoy not being trident poked concerning every aspect of life. There ARE those seemed oppressed when in the evil of their heart they actually seek contradictory virtues to Liberty such as that of the LICENSE John Locke, who himself was but a near Christian, speaks of that is deleterious to innocent life, to be offended by, just for the thrill of being contrarian. You speak of the “all of them must be wrong except the one we belong to.” Our Biblically derived Liberty of Conscience actually allows us to live among those unbelievers who do not want draconian government interfering with their lives. This effort of the likes of us is the best we can do to live up to Paul’s admonition:
Romans 12:18-21 (KJV)
18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.
19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
This is the society that individuals of the likes of us hope to work in, to allow the unbeliever a bit of space to make his decisions, mainly because we all go through that stage before God reveals to the elect of us that we are objects of His mercy, and if you just take it on the basis of self preservation, we would hate to be wounded coming into the community of the righteous. When we are not forced to duck for incoming, we advance Christianity without use of the sword. But INCOMING does happen, even in our society, and the government is that which deals with those who despise innocent life who live in the world of LICENSE, I guess the keyword is when it comes to protecting INNOCENT LIFE, not morals, we resort to weapons. It is the same with our reaction to the world outside our national borders. If those come to take our innocent lives, deprive us of Liberty once we have been made free within our border, or property that maintains our innocent lives, Saint and sinner of us in America are obligated to protect this Liberty.
There IS NOT GOING to be peace. We have no hope in our current age this side of what we call the rapture to have a Theocracy that folk claim we are trying to have in America, mainly because a true Theocracy would have God directly and visibly leading us with prophets and such. That will come, but not through our efforts and even that of a very pristine CHRISTIAN America, because the Camelot concept of AMERICA is our best efforts toward peace or to live PEACEABLY with all, with the caveats of IF IT BE POSSIBLE and AS MUCH AS LIETH IN YOU (or us of the righteous).
If America is using a sword right now against others, it is NOT us the leaders of Christianity guiding it unless against those who in spite of our patience insists on destroying us. The communists were such, and now it seems this Islam renewal, but while we do not desire it, we are not too surprised because even our Bible talks of turmoil, but since America is Christianity’s BEST effort to date, I am not willing to give it up, because out there, there is NO refuge for the likes of me.
If you are agreeing that darkness hates light. I can live with that. If you are hinting if we get RID of the light, there will be peace, there is that parting of ways. Yep, its ALL OF THEM against us. YEP, if it means that by believing Jesus when He says, “I AM THE WAY, THE TRUTH, AND THE LIFE, and NO MAN COMETH UNTO THE FATHER BUT BY ME, is bigotry, then when you paint that b on my back, make it a capital B. But I am not going to come after you with a sword to change your mind, but you are not going to stop me telling this truth as found in our Bible. I was made FREE and I am going to USE it to remain free.
I appreciated the Catholics when we Baptists and photo-Baptists were too weak to defend ourselves against the Islamic onslaughts, as I appreciate Jefferson, whom my Baptist spiritual forefathers, supported because he tried to help us as well in a political sense. If I had my druthers, I would have had CATHOLIC and BLACK Alan Keyes for my president over my GEORGIE W. BUSH fellow Midland, Texas homeowner homey. The Catholic somewhat hesitant response to Islamic adventurism was basically that A RESPONSE whether or not they included incentives that were not so always that of self preservation.
My original discussion or entrance into this was to correct a theological concept concerning the word PREVAIL. That was an offensive term weather than defensive in nature. In the spiritual front where we can spiritually confront the Gates of Hell in reference to people’s souls, the church’s position is to besiege those things that cause folk to be trapped in error, by the powerful words as found in the Corinthian statement of Paul concerning our warfare.
On this one thing I am actually having a hard time to NOT agree with what you are saying, and how the English of this is used. I AM saying that the church or rather a local, visible assembly, in that there is no such thing as ONE UNIVERSAL INVISIBLE or even VISIBLE ASSEMBLY, for an assembly may be as small as two or three, is in fact ON THE MARCH AGAINST in a manner of warfare that it can only be capable of, basically, in testifying the gospel to every part of the world that every true assembly of Christ has launched itself at. Am I not ALMOST saying what you are referring to? “from which to launch attacks on others who happen not to believe the same things.” The assembly is founded upon the WORDS of the saying,
Matthew 16:16 (KJV)
16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
This is the portable tool AGAINST the things of Satan, including his “gates of Hell.”
I don’t doubt that the Gates of Hell are the sally ports of hordes of error laden fiends and that they assault the assembly, but since the words of the Gospel are actually offensive weapons, not defensive, for you remember what I quoted before:
2 Corinthians 10:3-6 (KJV)
3 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh:
4 (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;)
5 Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;
6 And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.
So even taking your generalized definition of simply “prove more powerful than opposing forces,” since GATES are fixed places in edifices THAT MAY EXALT ITSELF AGAINST THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOD, as being FIXED, and a defensive feature, it can only HOLD OUT AGAINST A FORCE and thus prove superior, OR SUPERIOR forces moving against the GATE prove more powerful and the edifice is breached…check mate.
Apparently the Gate has no future it will simply NOT HOLD OUT (prevail or prove more powerful) than the OFFENSIVE TOOL of the established truth that JESUS is the CHRIST, the SON OF THE LIVING GOD” that DOES PREVAIL.
The law of two or three witnesses defines in application the church as seen in Matthew 18:
Matthew 18:16-20 (KJV)
16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the MOUTH OF TWO OR THREE WITNESS EVERY WORD BE ESTABLISHED
17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
19 Again I say unto you, That if TWO of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
20 For where TWO OR THREE ARE GATHERED TOGETHER IN MY NAME, there am I in the midst of them.
Gathering together is synonymous to BEING ASSEMBLED in a church (assembly) sense.
One person is NOT a church and alone may not be able to prevail against another or hold out against ONE who might be superior in power to him. But we have this type of proverb or preaching point in the Bible concerning an application of the Torah law of two or three witnesses that Moses introduced concerning judgments, as paraphrased “in the mouth of ONE WITNESS shall NO man be put to death, but in the mouth of WITNESSES, TWO OR THREE, shall a matter be established:”
Ecclesiastes 4:12 (KJV)
12 And if one prevail against him, two shall withstand him; and a threefold cord is not quickly broken.
Here we have your case of one trying to hold out against another though more powerful ONE. When the besieged calls 911 and a knight in shining honor comes to assist, then there is more power than any ONE, and where the ONE once PREVAILED in his assault, the TWO withstand the assault, and there is this added commentary that ties this as an application of the law of two or three witnesses that establishes a matter, “a THREEfold cord is NOT QUICKLY BROKEN.
But again, the GATE is a fixed feature with only the ability to hold off a breach or in case of superior power is indeed breached. So Jesus says the church in its assault on that local gate of Hell the church is located in ambusheshment before (two or three gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them) and in application of the gospel (since no WEAPON of steel can be used) the fixed gate is breached and thus cannot prevail (or prove more powerful than) the assault.
Of course these are tedious things that can be determined in an archive of testimony you are not willing to have any confidence in, but I won’t fault you in participating in the discussion, and while the lesson may not fall on you, others may be comforted. I do know that the elect of God are unknown and are found just about anywhere, and when such words are placed in their ears, GOD will do that which is necessary to bring them out of the chains of the enemy and retrieve them through the failed gates of Hell they would have otherwise have been confined behind. And that is the actual thrust of Jesus’ message, not that we go out of our way and kill unbelievers…this is GOD’S bailiwick. We were ALL unbelievers at one time. Since we do NOT know who are the elect, we broadcast to ALL our unconditional love if we are able, and if we have to duck, we have government that tries to protect us in our liberty to persuade people that we are unable to compel to obedience to the word by some sword. There is a bit of reason here.
War is an interest of very few individuals, worriers actually pay the prize of what they really dont understand and at no point they realize the benefit of the same war their are in.
Who is this wanna-be oracle? He sounds like he believes he created himself. Perhaps this is just his delusion characterizing this time in his life. Hopefully, he will pass on to allow wisdom to penetrate past this view of himself as the be-all and center of the Universe.
Who is this wanna-be oracle? He sounds like he believes he created himself. Perhaps this is just his delusion characterizing this time in his life. Hopefully, he will pass on to allow wisdom to penetrate past this view of himself as the be-all and center of the Universe.
Yawn. He knows. He likes to stir the pot after he reads all the articles and wants to believe but…..well, you know the tired dissertations.
Patric Gannon, Why are you angry?
The sooner people believe that Jesus came to save us the better and that. IS is The face of the devi. And that the devil has many faces who is trying to distroy Christianity but it will fail
Yawn. He knows. He likes to stir the pot after he reads all the articles and wants to believe but…..well, you know the tired dissertations.
Patric Gannon, Why are you angry?
The sooner people believe that Jesus came to save us the better and that. IS is The face of the devi. And that the devil has many faces who is trying to distroy Christianity but it will fail
well, you should read bible stories and please omit the ‘God words and deed’ in the stories, so you will clearly see that without religion, there were also no peace.
Please read the story of Three Kingdoms, the classic of Chinesse, the warring states were not about religion. In India, you will find classic story of Mahabharat, the war between families from single line. Also not about religion.
Vietnam war (1955-1975) wasn”t about religions also.
Human history were full of violents. Judeo-Christian recorded it the way as it is. Even your own comment were full of hatred and violents. You are far from the peace itself.
well, you should read bible stories and please omit the ‘God words and deed’ in the stories, so you will clearly see that without religion, there were also no peace.
Please read the story of Three Kingdoms, the classic of Chinesse, the warring states were not about religion. In India, you will find classic story of Mahabharat, the war between families from single line. Also not about religion.
Vietnam war (1955-1975) wasn”t about religions also.
Human history were full of violents. Judeo-Christian recorded it the way as it is. Even your own comment were full of hatred and violents. You are far from the peace itself.